which Radiator for a cpu & gpu system

Magicuser · Sep 9, 2006

hi i have a pentium d 805 and a gefroce 6800gs and ive allready picked out the water block for them but i have yet to figure out an Radiator config or for that matter a Radiator at all i was thinking about a Black Ice GT Stealth 240 Radiator but im not sure if it is to big i what to overclok my pentium d 805 to around 3.6~3.8ghz range i dont know if this helps but here is the parts i have so far ( i already have a pump and what will serve as a resavior):

Swiftech Apogee-1U 775
Danger Den Acetal MAZE4 GPU
Clearflex 60 Premium Tubing 1/2" ID x 3/4" OD
Fluid XP EXT Extreme Non-Conductive Coolant - UV Midnight Blue 32oz
swifttech mcb-120 radbox

thanks for that help.

NickS · Sep 10, 2006

The Swiftech MCR-220 would be a good choice. The Black Ice GT 240 is nice too. Good luck

Dragoon42 · Sep 10, 2006

I'd pick the mcr-220 over the GTS. I haven't really read too many good things about the GT 240

Magicuser · Sep 10, 2006

thanks i think i will go with the black ice gts thanks btw this is my first water cooler thanks agian

BillA · Sep 11, 2006

http://translate.google.com/transla...fe=off&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=/language_tools

EDIT: corrected link

freakdiablo · Sep 11, 2006

why go with just one? thats the great thing about watercooling:expandability. at as many radiators as needed, then when your pump gets overloaded, get one with higher output

Senater_Cache · Sep 11, 2006

wow, welcome back bill. great link.

voigts · Sep 11, 2006

the best pc radiators available are the Thermochill PA series.

BillA · Sep 11, 2006

not correct, just the most expensive
all rads of similar size and construction perform similarly
dig deeper

FIZZ3 · Sep 11, 2006

BillA said:
http://translate.google.com/transla...fe=off&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=/language_tools

EDIT: corrected link

Nice article. Seems like they have used your data to put together a comprehensive review.

Maybe in one sentence for those who didn't read the review: the GT240 is only 'good' if you use two 86CFM fans at full speed (I have one fan near that rating and I find it too loud at 12v). If you have less airflow, it likely offers no benefit over BIX2-type radiators. It is also quite restrictive, but at least your Apogee block is not.

Redeemer: rads of the same rough size (i.e., 1, 2 or 3 fans) perform very similar in a real world system.

nikhsub1 · Sep 11, 2006

BillA said:
not correct, just the most expensive
all rads of similar size and construction perform similarly
dig deeper

Bill, can you show us where the PA was tested against a CW rad of 'similar' size, FPI and headloss characteristics?

BillA · Sep 11, 2006

see Roscal's article
the CoolingWorks CR-22T and CR-32T are the same construction as the PAs
(NOT the CR-12T as it is 18FPI)

see the Swiftech article for similiarity of types

[O-CuK]Marci · Sep 11, 2006

Comparison tests end up with the usual "obviously Thermochill outperforms, it's thicker, so unfair comparison." Therefore, it can't be compared... apparently. *Shrug*

How do you compare a rad that has no "equals" when it comes to size, FPI and headloss??

Redeemer: rads of the same rough size (i.e., 1, 2 or 3 fans) perform very similar in a real world system.

ADDENDUM - JULY 2006 - Further independant comparative results vs other rads - Testing Performed by Radical_53 on behalf of HardwareLuxx Magazine - Germany

1 - Pressure Drop - flow set at 4lpm at pump, pressure measured after radiator. % loss shown - smaller the loss, better the head pressure... listed best to worst.

Least Pressure Drop...
ThermoChill PA120.3 - 6%
Watercool HTFX3-x - 14%
HWLabs BlackIce GT360 - 17%
HWLabs BlackIce GT360 XFlow - 17%
HWLabs BlackIce Xtreme - 17%
HWLabs BlackIce Xtreme XFlow - 17%
Watercool HTSF - 17%
Cooltek MCR320 - 18%
NexXxos Xtreme - 23%
NexXxos Pro - 27%
...highest Pressure Drop

2 - Performance order (best to worst) based on final coolant temp, cooled with YateLoon 120mm fan - lower the "k" figure (difference between coolant temp and air temp), cooler the coolant, therefore better the performance...

At 600rpm:
Thermochill PA120.3 - 7k
Watercool HTSF - 8k
Watercool HTSF3-x - 8.4k
Cooltek Maxistream / Swiftech MCR - 8.4k
Black Ice GT - 9.2k
Black Ice Extreme - 11k
Alphacool NexXxos Pro - 11.2k
Black Ice GT X-Flow - 12.1k
Black Ice Extreme X-Flow - 12.3k
Alphacool NexXxos Extreme - 14k

At 900rpm:
ThermoChill - 6.2k
Cooltek - 6.9k
BIGT - 7.2k
WC HTSF - 7.3k
BIGT-XFlow - 7.3k
WC HTSF3-x - 7.4k
NexXxos Pro - 7.5k
BIX - 8.5k
NexXxos Extreme - 8.5k
BIX-XFlow - 9.5k

At 1200rpm:
ThermoChill - 4.2k
Cooltek - 5.6k
BIGT - 5.7k
BIGT-XFlow - 5.9k
BIX - 5.9k
NexXxos Pro - 6.1k
NexXxos Extreme - 6.1k
HTF3-x - 6.3k
HTSF - 6.3k
BIX-XFlow - 6.6k

*shrug*

Define "similar"... in all other comparisons online (inc Bill's data used for Roscal's article) ThermoChill weren't approached to provide a rad to include. The testrig used for Roscal's article that Bill links to no longer exists, so once again, no direct results on the same testrig exist other than Radical53's above...

General consensus seems to be that cos it costs so much more than the others and doesn't comply to "similar" dimensions that it should be omitted / ignored.

I've given up trying... folks'll buy whatever they wanna buy. Leave em to it. Why the hell should we care?

[O-CuK]Marci · Sep 11, 2006

Confusing me bill...

Coolrad 22T

Double Row, optimized density louvered flat tubes for optimal heat dissipation at low noise levels (12 fins per inch)

PA has lower FPI, larger tubes, 3/8" BSP inlet and outlet, and 22T falls 19mm short on overall depth...

nikhsub1 · Sep 11, 2006

I tend to agree with Marci here... Porshe/Audi/VW are the 'same' construction, too. I know which I'd rather have

roscal · Sep 11, 2006

Major difference with others rads is the extreme depth used in Thermochill rads. Even if the FPI is ~equal to MCR220 or CR-22T and process is identical, there's a little doubt about their performance because flat tubes are very deep (how much exactly Marci ? Tubes dimensions ?). We can reasonably think that more perfs is possible with that depth and the low FPI, airflow will be hurt a bit for sure, but surface will probably compensate well in this case. Bill is a bit expeditious in his decision

.

Thermochill PA are probably the best in performance at low-moderate airflow, but cost and oversized rad are 2 drawbacks. As I said and unfortunately, ratio perf/cost or perf/size are not in favor of Thermochill rads. Generally, people who want to buy a rad ask themselves these questions. Ex: Is 50% more cost worth 1-2°C lower at full load ? Can I integrate it in my tower ? Etc. Perf is one thing, but not the only thing

Huge difference, no ?

nikhsub1 · Sep 11, 2006

roscal said:
Generally, people who want to buy a rad ask themselves these questions. Ex: Is 50% more cost worth 1-2°C lower at full load ? Can I integrate it in my tower ? Etc. Perf is one thing, but not the only thing

Yes, yes, yes and yes

I do think Bill is jumping to the wrong assumption here as well Roscal.

roscal · Sep 11, 2006

It's a pity that Bill didn't ask Marci a PA120.2, it would be interesting for comparison, but originally it wasn't decided to be an article, data were for CoolingWorks use. Another time...

Dragoon42 · Sep 11, 2006

nikhsub1 said:
Yes, yes, yes and yes I do think Bill is jumping to the wrong assumption here as well Roscal.

Lol when I read that post I was going to ask him the same questions that you've asked. But it's already been done.

Anyways, OP, if you really have the budget, just pickup a PA120.2

I'm in the process of getting a new WC setup and i'm going with the MCR-220. But this is only because it's right next to my AC vent, and I don't plan on moving for a long time. If not I'd pick up a PA20.2

Yes this is the same as my heater, but i live in Alabama, so we keep the house around 70f year round. I have it like 1-2 inches away from the vent. It keeps everything really cool.

[O-CuK]Marci · Sep 11, 2006

Roscal - specs have never been published publicly, we had to move the design discussions out of public eyes due to Chinese interference (cloned the PA160 before we'd even released it)... will send you them by e-mail tomorrow. FPI is most definitely lower than both products Bill references... as is inlet/outlet bore...

Cost/perf ratio is mainly an issue outside of EU more than anywhere else. Within UK, the price difference is literally a handful of £'s... so all depends from what country you're looking at it for the price issue - altho this has been battled out all over the place... we didn't particularly ask for folks outside UK to buy our rads - when they were first released back in HE days it was solely for the UK market... they chose to buy of their own volition. Obviously there are those out there who purchase on price/perf, however, there are still those who purchase purely on performance. Should this mean the product line is discounted / overlooked??

The StormG4 still sells in high numbers, despite it's price/perf being over the competition...

Look at the GPU market.... price/perf equally skewed... and the CPU market. Is this not something inherent to the "performance hardware" within the field that we all choose to reside?

One could debate the pump price/perf argument...

which Radiator for a cpu & gpu system

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