Seasonic S12-600 or Muskin XP-650

Dagan · Aug 10, 2006

I am struggling between these two psu, for my new Core 2 e6700 Setup.

ASUS P5W DH
Core 2 e6700
2x1GB Mushkin 1067 Redline
WD Raptop 74gb
2x Seagate 250 7200.9
BFG 7800GTX, possible crossfire in the future
SB Audigy Fatal1ty
Dvd Drive
Dvd Burner
and Fans and misc...

I like the Seasonic because from what I hear it is very quiet and efficient, but I like the modular of the Mushkin. What do you guys think, I did a search but I couldn't find a comparison of the two psu's. Thanks

Froggy · Aug 10, 2006

From what I have read, the new Corsair HX620 is your best bet. Cheaper than the Mushkin and better PSU. It is actually made by Seasonic too. It's modular and uses the flex force power cables which are slick.

Gautam · Aug 10, 2006

I agree with Travis, the Corsair sounds like your cup of tea.

IMHO scratch the Mushkin off your list. Its quality is not quite up to par.

Dagan · Aug 10, 2006

Thanks for the quick replies, I will look into the corsair 620...

Super Nade · Aug 10, 2006

The Mushkin 650 is not as bad as the 550 W version. Still, it is Topower and their QC has really been all over the place. I can find excellent units made by them as well as units that are utter garbage.

For your purpose, the Corsair or the Silverstone Zeus 560W single rail would do very well.

Dagan · Aug 10, 2006

Ok well I have been looking around and I can't find any Corsair's 620HX in stock...Do you guys know of anywhere?

Froggy · Aug 11, 2006

The only places that has them currently in stock is Atacom.com or Zipzoomfly.com

http://www.atacom.com/program/print...RCH_ALL&Item_code=POWS_CORS_HX_62&USER_ID=www

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=373110

Eldonko · Aug 11, 2006

Gautam said:
I agree with Travis, the Corsair sounds like your cup of tea.

IMHO scratch the Mushkin off your list. Its quality is not quite up to par.

Can you clarify that Gautam, not up to par in what way?

I have one of these psu myself and have tested it extensively and it could handle everything I could throw at it with very very low ripple.

Reviews:
Motherboard.org: Editors Choice Award
Gruntville: Editors Choice Award
PC Stats: 80% Score
PlanetX64: 18.35/20
TweakTown: 9 out of 10 and TweakTown's MUST HAVE Best Performance Award!

Even Charlie at XS vouches for it:

Charlie @ XS said:
My Mushkin 650W has been bulletproof for me so far... even with X1900 Xfire. When I grab a Conroe and throw it in a Vapo LS with my Xfire... it'll be the power source

Post

Oklahoma Wolf · Aug 11, 2006

Travis Dawes said:
From what I have read, the new Corsair HX620 is your best bet.

I'll second that. Though the Mushkin may well be a decent unit, I'm on a wait and see approach to any Topower made PSU lately. Build quality is just too variable with them. I will say however that it is not likely any Topower made unit will hold up over the long term as well as anything from Seasonic.

Until reviewed thoroughly and scientifically by Xbit, Lee Garbutt, or jonnyGURU I'm on the fence about the Mushkin XP. I'm waiting and seeing

Gautam · Aug 11, 2006

Eldonko said:
Even Charlie at XS vouches for it:
Post

ROFL, that's rich. You know just as well as I do that charlie has very strong ties and beta testing status with Mushkin. Give me a break, you really think I was born yesterday?

As for the reviews, all of them use very weak load tests, except for PC Stats arguably, but then again, if you're bragging about an 80% score, you're picking at straws anyways.

Anyone familiar with PSUs knows that Seasonic has a MUCH more solid track record than Topower. Add to that the Corsair's ~$50 lower street price, and the Mushkin is just pointless to consider as an option.

Take your advertising elsewhere, we don't want nor need it here. Product launch information, and customer support are reasons why I like seeing reps around on the forums. But misleading and deceiving potential customers is absolutely unacceptable and will do nothing but cost Mushkin sales in the long run. Mushkin's style really is something. I had a very high opinion of them until their reps started coming in and pulling such crap as you are. Business is business but this is despicable.

Eldonko · Aug 11, 2006

Bro I just posted my experience with the psu and links to some reviews. Call it marketing if you want, but I think we have the right to defend our products when people post they are of bad quality. I didnt say anything about the xp-650 being better or worse than the corsair or seasonic and I havent mislead or deceived anyone.

Super Nade · Aug 11, 2006

Motherboards.org Testbed:

ASUS P5WD2-E Premium Mainboard

Intel Pentium 4 530J "Prescott" [Consumes 84W Stock (200x15, 1.4v) and 149W Overclocked (255x15, 1.65V)]

2x1024MB SuperTalent Modules, operating at 1:2 to FSB, 2.35V

XFX 7600GS

Western Digital 80GB IDE HDD

Modified Sansun Galaxy with all fans, Weapon 302 Heatercore, Swiftech MCP600 Pump

IMO, testing a unit marketed as top drawer with a 7600GS is not enough. Most units do well with a light enough load. The Prescott is a hungry beast, but that alone cannot load up a PSU. I would have liked to see something closer to the x1800 xt or x1900xtx (single or paired up).
==================================================

Gruntville Test-bed:

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Motherboard[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] DFI LanParty UT Ultra-D (modified for SLI) [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Processor[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] AMD Athlon64 X2 3800+ (260x10) [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Memory[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 2x1GB OCZ PC3200 @ 2.5-2-2-5 [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Video[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 2x Gigabyte 7800GT (GV-NX78T256VB-ED) [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]HDD[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 2x WD 74GB Raptor – Raid 0 (128k) [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 1x WD 320GB SE [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Audio[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] M-Audio Revolution 7.1[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]CD-ROM[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Plextor PX-708A [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Fans[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 3x Panaflo H1 120mm [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] 1x Panaflo H1 92mm[/FONT]

Now this is a better test system on the video card front, but a DMM only gives you information about the AVERAGE value of a signal. There is no information about transients or AC-signals riding on the DC. So, I would not find this review satisfactory as well.
====================================================

PCStats Review:
No idea what their test system is. Again, multimeters cannot be used to measure ripple (even if you use AC coupling). You absolutely need a scope. Also, purely static loads were being used. So, this is not really representative of a true system.

============================================================================

PlanetX64 Review:

DFI LP UT SLI-DR Expert
AMD Opteron 165 @ 2.5
Corsair TwinX PT 2x512MB
2x Leadtek 7800GT TDH Extreme in SLI
LG Super-Multi DVD+-RW
2x Samsung 80GB SATA 3G in RAID 0
2x Seagate 750GB 7200.10 SATA 3G in RAID 0
1x Seagate 500GB 7200.9 SATA3G
Danger Den Water-cooling

One thing to note with the 12V rails is that they can not be loaded with 20A each all at once. The maximum load at one time is 44A across the four rails.

Fairly heavy loads on all rails. Good setup for testing. Again no information about ripple. The part in green is a bit disturbing. Maybe "Rail-Fusion" is not working as it is being marketed? So, how about telling us how many amps can the 12V rails be loaded at, all at once. I think what this review says is that this unit will fail cross-loading tests.
========================================================================

Tweaktown Review:
Very good test bed but :

All right then... the system is running and the tasks are chugging along. The processor is at default speed and voltage is set to 1.5v. The memory is running at 2.9v and all other levels are set to default. The motherboard is an absolute power hog and the video card has sent many lesser power supplies to an early grave. Let's see what this thing can do!

The XTX is not overclocked, so I cannot obtain the information I need from this review.
=======================================================================

As for Charlie, mate, we all know he is a Mushkin Rep, so his word, simply because he is associated with your company, is out of the question as well.

=========================================================================

I saw your post at ocxtream, where you measured ripple to be 0%, using a DMM. I'm sorry mate, that is just not how it is done. You really need to hook it up to a wide-bandwidth scope (if you wish to catch higher harmonics) for a correct picture. 0% ripple is impossible, even theoretically. I'm not trying to indulge in one-upmanship, so Ihope you would take these suggestions in good spirit.

So, the point I'm trying to make is that none of the reviews you have posted give me all the information I need to qualify this unit as top notch.

The system I would like to see this unit power whilst rails are monitored on a scope is:

Prescott overclocked to the max on air
965X based mainboard
x1900xtx CF or 7800GTX /7900 GTX/7950 SLI overclocked to the max on air
5 HDD's
2 Opticals
High voltage RAM to load up the 3.3V rails

Another big reason for skeptisism would be the OEM. Now tell me, how many OCZ 600 W units have died in the past year? Enough to justify concern. Look at the OCZ 510 SLI single rail units, they are vastly superior to the 600W units. Both were made by Topower. It is this inconsistency which worries us all. Unless their reliability is proved, people will remain cautious.

S-N

Gautam · Aug 11, 2006

Eldonko said:
Bro I just posted my experience with the psu and links to some reviews. Call it marketing if you want, but I think we have the right to defend our products when people post they are of bad quality. I didnt say anything about the xp-650 being better or worse than the corsair or seasonic and I havent mislead or deceived anyone.

I have no idea how long you've had this status, but I could smell the bias in your posts lately from a mile away. Not sure if everyone else could, including some people who actually made purchases based on your recommendations. Not disclosing your relationship with Mushkin makes it deception, and you actually dared to try do the same with me by choosing Charlie of all people as a reference. Even your attempt to defend yourself was deceiving. You aren't the first person that's pushed Mushkin products without full disclosure of your relationship, that's what I consider misleading. I come to forums to read community views and thoughts, not advertisements. A certain other forum has lately become filled with the latter and it tires me, but we don't need to go there.

And about the PSU, another review was much less satisfied with it than you are to say the least.

Super Nade · Aug 11, 2006

Eldonko said:
Bro I just posted my experience with the psu and links to some reviews. Call it marketing if you want, but I think we have the right to defend our products when people post they are of bad quality. I didnt say anything about the xp-650 being better or worse than the corsair or seasonic and I havent mislead or deceived anyone.

Now mate, you are contradicting what you said on ocxtream.

Eldonko said:
If you are talking about the hp-550, I have the same answer as Tom ^^. it is made as an entry level psu for average users, not for enthusiasts with heavyweight systems and big time ocs. XP line is made for us.

It will however run a typical system fine. There is no way an average pc user will use close to the power JG (My edit* JG=JonnyGURU*) did in his review, that is the kind of testing nvidia does to SLI certify a psu.

In this the thread below, the OP is clearly looking to overclock and you recommended the 550W unit. What's up with that? In your defense, you do suggest the 650W unit, but only as an afterthought. But really, I would expect all reps to be more forthright and accurate in their recommendations.

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=470652

PS#

If you wondered how your rank was changed, I facilitated it via a mod, upon learning that you beta tested for Mushkin. We expect complete transparency from all company representatives in return for the warm welcome they receive.

Eldonko · Aug 11, 2006

Hey SN,

Points taken, I totally understand where you guys are coming from.

I agree there have been some issues with Topower and the ocz 600w units and a few other psus even, but you have to give us a chance before dismissing a psu that hasn’t been proven yet. Mushkin R&D worked very hard on these new psus w/ Topower and there are some nice high end units coming.

Re ripple testing in my review, I'm aware 100% that this should be done with an oscilloscope, however unfortunately I don’t have one so I did the best I could for testing. Psu testing equip is expensive!

I'm a RAM tweeker, I need my pennies for hardware.

Oklahoma Wolf · Aug 11, 2006

Eldonko said:
Re ripple testing in my review, I'm aware 100% that this should be done with an oscilloscope, however unfortunately I don’t have one so I did the best I could for testing.

Unfortunately, a scope is the only way to test for ripple - it cannot be done at all with a DMM.

Gautam · Aug 11, 2006

S N just brought your review at OCXtreme to my attention, 0.0% ripple as tested with a DMM...

I don't know whether to laugh or cry, but if that isn't deception I don't know what is.

Eldonko · Aug 11, 2006

When I recommended the 550 in that post it was when it was first released and I was under the impression it was made similar to the 650. I didn’t have the opportunity to try it myself yet. You clarified the situation and that is fine with me.

I get what you guys are saying though, you will not see 1 more recommendation from me (unless its specifically asked what MUSHKIN product), only review threads, tech support, and help for folks that have questions.

Gautam · Aug 11, 2006

Eldonko said:
I get what you guys are saying though, you will not see 1 more recommendation from me (unless its specifically asked what MUSHKIN product), only review threads, tech support, and help for folks that have questions.

Thank you. I do hope you hold yourself to this.

jonnyGURU · Aug 11, 2006

Super Nade said:
Motherboards.org Testbed:

IMO, testing a unit marketed as top drawer with a 7600GS is not enough. Most units do well with a light enough load. The Prescott is a hungry beast, but that alone cannot load up a PSU. I would have liked to see something closer to the x1800 xt or x1900xtx (single or paired up).

Ok... But take it easy on Steve. He's a good kid and has good intentions.

Seriously though... Why not send one my way and I'll check it out? The Topower built OCZ 520ADJSLI did fantastic on the test bench, so as long as the XP650 is of the same caliber of components and just squeeze out 130W more, there's nothing to worry about, right?

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