Silenx Fans Vs. All

well well everyone. welcome to another fine day at the forums.

in the last thread i started i found out a few things
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=399512

1. there is no enforced standard test to measure dba of fans. so basicly dba at the moment is merely a general idea of how loud it will be.

2. dba is not linear (60dba is 2 times as loud as 50dba) here is a cool site to hear the dba scale
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/dB.html

3. Joe Citarella is the one guy who may have the required technology to help us all out. anyone know who he is? or how to contact him?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

with that being said, there is no need to state that some companies lie about thie dba. there is no enforced standard dba testing

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

the next step is to find out if there are and enforced standard cfm tests.

i personally think this s a different matter than noise. since with noise they can choose to test at whatever distance they like.

however with cfm i dont see any underhanded way to dupe people into assuming false information, without just flat out lying.

Time4aMassiveOC said:

2. dba is not linear (60dba is 2 times as loud as 50dba) here is a cool site to hear the dba scale
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/dB.html

Click to expand...

A 10 dB increase gives a 10X increase in sound power, not 2x. Roughly a 3dB increase is a doubling in sound power (W/m^3).

3. Joe Citarella is the one guy who may have the required technology to help us all out. anyone know who he is? or how to contact him?

Click to expand...

JoeC is an admin here, and also a part owner of the www.overclockers.com website i believe. He is a a prolific writer of watercooling reviews at the aforementioned site.

just flat out lying.

Click to expand...

*DING DING DING!* We have a winner

Time4aMassiveOC said:

3. Joe Citarella is the one guy who may have the required technology to help us all out. anyone know who he is? or how to contact him?

Click to expand...

Here's Joe's E-mail

One thing not mentioned about SilenX fans in that other thread is the fact that they are re-branded ADDA fans sold at a HEFTY premium once a SilenX sticker is slapped over the ADDA label (or the ADDA label is removed and a SilenX sticker is applied. (How do I know this? SilenX told me as I wanted to know why there was no mention on their site if the fans were Sleeve or Ball bearing (they are sleeve btw)

Not only raw dB matters. Human sound perception differs with frequency change. Depending on "kind" of noise and vibrations, each fan will sound different in and outside case. For quieter fans noise characteristics is even more important, as quieter clicking may be more irritating than a bit more noisy "woosh".

Anyway it's not too nice to find "noise" data in product info so random. This way fans are hard to compare.

Phextwin said:

A 10 dB increase gives a 10X increase in sound power, not 2x. Roughly a 3dB increase is a doubling in sound power (W/m^3).

Click to expand...

While what you state is correct at the same time it isn't

Did you notice that what you stated is dB and what Time4aMassiveOC stated was dBA? That "A" makes all the difference. That refers to the A scale or rather a scale based on the range by which humans hear. Since it is by what our ears tell us that we base all our judgements on. The decibel A scale or dBA is what nearly every thing is rated on. Which means that an increase of 3 dBA is barely noticable to the human ear while an increase of 10 dBA is perceived to be twice as loud.

I hope this clears up any confusion.

So are SlientX Fans "truely" that quiet, or is it a bunch of hooey???

Electron Chaser said:

While what you state is correct at the same time it isn't

Did you notice that what you stated is dB and what Time4aMassiveOC stated was dBA? That "A" makes all the difference. That refers to the A scale or rather a scale based on the range by which humans hear. Since it is by what our ears tell us that we base all our judgements on. The decibel A scale or dBA is what nearly every thing is rated on. Which means that an increase of 3 dBA is barely noticable to the human ear while an increase of 10 dBA is perceived to be twice as loud.

I hope this clears up any confusion.

Click to expand...

I beleive dB is used to rate antenna power, in which case a 3 dB gain does double the signal strength. While dBA is for what EC mentioned as for sounds.

On the music acoustics and speech acoustics sites, we plot the sound spectra in dB. The reason for this common practice is that the range of measured sound pressures is large. We plot acoustic impedance spectra in dB for the same reason: the input impedance of a musical instrument, such as the flute, varies over a factor of several thousand. <- Encore2097 pulled that right off this page.

Silversinksam said:

Here's Joe's E-mail

One thing not mentioned about SilenX fans in that other thread is the fact that they are re-branded ADDA fans sold at a HEFTY premium once a SilenX sticker is slapped over the ADDA label (or the ADDA label is removed and a SilenX sticker is applied. (How do I know this? SilenX told me as I wanted to know why there was no mention on their site if the fans were Sleeve or Ball bearing (they are sleeve btw)

Click to expand...

I believe SilenX also adds a resistor to these fans to reduce the voltage as well.

silentx fans are a hunk of crap - any person from silentpcreview.com will tell you that they suck - everyone over there swears by yate loon fans that many run at 5v

SewerBeing said:

On the music acoustics and speech acoustics sites, we plot the sound spectra in dB. The reason for this common practice is that the range of measured sound pressures is large. We plot acoustic impedance spectra in dB for the same reason: the input impedance of a musical instrument, such as the flute, varies over a factor of several thousand. <- Encore2097 pulled that right off this page.

Click to expand...

Yea, I didnt see that page but I knew dB was usually used in electronics but since they're all waves, I would guess they can be represented on any of the dB* scales.

But Im still saying how sounds heard by humans are on the dBA scale rather than the dB scale. So information about the dB scale is somewhat irrelavent, I figure you wouldnt consider a fan a "musical instrument"? Well I guess you could...

Silversinksam said:

Here's Joe's E-mail

One thing not mentioned about SilenX fans in that other thread is the fact that they are re-branded ADDA fans sold at a HEFTY premium once a SilenX sticker is slapped over the ADDA label (or the ADDA label is removed and a SilenX sticker is applied. (How do I know this? SilenX told me as I wanted to know why there was no mention on their site if the fans were Sleeve or Ball bearing (they are sleeve btw)

Click to expand...

yeah i remember that thread. an employee signed up for the forums just to respond to you as i recall. tho he didnt ever admit to being an employee


he also said something about them modding them slightly if i recall. or some implication that they didnt just slap a sticker on adda's and sell them marked
up as is.

Aslan said:

I believe SilenX also adds a resistor to these fans to reduce the voltage as well.

Click to expand...

i think this is basicly what he was talking about.

SlipViper said:

So are SlientX Fans "truely" that quiet, or is it a bunch of hooey???

Click to expand...

as to being quiet, i can vouch for them being much quieter than any other fan i ever owned. but then again there arnt any fans ive owned that are rated anywhere near 14dba so i have nothing to compare them to other than panaflos, deltas, sunons, vantecs , and cheap off brands most of which have been in the 28-36 dba area.

ignoring that dba is an unreliable way to compare fans, this means the silenx fan is roughly 4 times quieter.


as to thier cfm being correct. thats what im trying to find out.

Electron Chaser said:

While what you state is correct at the same time it isn't *snip

Click to expand...

What i said was true, but i was wrong when correcting T4AMOC

Weighting has nothing to do with it, i just got muddled - My apologies.

He was correct in that a 10dB increase is a doubling in percieved loudness, and i was correct in saying that it is a 10x increase in sound power.

We were just talking about different things.

Encore said:

I beleive dB is used to rate antenna power, in which case a 3 dB gain does double the signal strength. While dBA is for what EC mentioned as for sounds.

Click to expand...

dB is simply a measure of the ratio between two values. The weighting is irrelevant is is just applied to make it fit the response of the human ear. For sound, it is the ratio of the measured sound power to the threashold of human hearing (~20µPa). For electronics (amplifier voltage gain for instance) is is the ratio of the input over the output.

Aslan said:

I believe SilenX also adds a resistor to these fans to reduce the voltage as well.

Click to expand...

I believe Adda does all the work regarding the resistor (that is, if the resistor is even present (details below in yellow)

Time4aMassiveOC said:

as to being quiet, i can vouch for them being much quieter than any other fan i ever owned. but then again there arnt any fans ive owned that are rated anywhere near 14dba so i have nothing to compare them to other than panaflos, deltas, sunons, vantecs , and cheap off brands most of which have been in the 28-36 dba area.

ignoring that dba is an unreliable way to compare fans, this means the silenx fan is roughly 4 times quieter.
as to thier cfm being correct. thats what im trying to find out.

Click to expand...

I have shown other Sleeve bearing fans just as quiet, most Sleeve bearing fans are quiet in nature, they also have a tendancy to wear out much faster than a ball bearing fan.

Here is my arguement with a SilenX employee, and he refused to respond to my second rebuttal to his unfounded statements, he refused to answer how their dBA is measured, they refused to comment about the resistor, and they just plain refused to talk after they figured out we are not morons at this site. Anyone that pays $24.95 for a rebranded sleeve bearing fan imho could be better served buying a quiet, quality, longer lasting dual ball bearing fan.

http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=3778761&postcount=21






.

What was the first conversation like, if that is the second email???

btw, just one word to that poor employee....PWNED!!!

SlipViper said:

What was the first conversation like, if that is the second email???

btw, just one word to that poor employee....PWNED!!!

Click to expand...

In the email conversations they confessed to a few things I already knew, I wanted to hear it from them though, what I posted above was from a thread here. I don't reprint someones e-mail conversation verbatim without their consent.

the silenx fans i used were the 14dba ones. I can tell you they suck and they have tons of motor noise. That thing grinds at low rpms and they dont push a lot of air at all. I promptly got rid of them, and good thing i broke even too.

situman said:

the silenx fans i used were the 14dba ones. I can tell you they suck and they have tons of motor noise. That thing grinds at low rpms and they dont push a lot of air at all. I promptly got rid of them, and good thing i broke even too.

Click to expand...

thats strange, it must be older fans than i have, as sam mentioned earlier they are sleeve bearings so they wear out faster. but then again i dont undervolt nor do i use the motherboard headers to control the fan speed according to temps. i just let have the entire system of silenx fans run off the molex's at full speed.


i need to get my hands on some of the fans sam is talking about.

oh by the way sam could you link me or give me a list of any fans that run (full stock speed) at around 14dba ~11-17 area like silenx do? or any you feel are as relatively quiet as the 14 dba silenx line is. i belive you have tried at least one out correct?

i would be willing to buy any fan you feel is a high cfm low dba fan. especially since i just built a computer with a xp-120 with a 120mm, and then a 120mm a 92mm and a 80mm for the case fans.

and i gotta tell ya it wasnt cheap. lol i would much rather buy a cheaper product that performed as well at a similar sound level.


as to longevity of dual ball bearings. unless the longevity of the fan also encompased the noise increase being less over time. it wouldnt really serve me any purpose.

i dont have any experience with them. so i dont know a thing about them but,

i seem to recall a conversation sometime around the time of that adda thread about how the sleeve bearings get slightly louder over time and have a signifigantly shorter life span. and how ball bearings die a slow and painfully noisy death in comparison.


correct me where im wrong, i didnt go back and find the thread so i may be wayyyy off.

Time4aMassiveOC said:

correct me where im wrong, i didnt go back and find the thread so i may be wayyyy off.

Click to expand...

In this thread (Post #21) I went into detail with the facts regarding Sleeve and Ball bearings, not to be rude but I am not going to type that all out again (I'll try to remember to send you a list tomorrow of quiet fans that wont break your bank)
Until then, read this excerpt of post #21, its based on reality and not BS like some companies will lead you to believe...

Silversinksam said:

Ball bearing fans can fail for these reasons:

• Lubricant and viscosity of lubricant used, this is why I say Quality dual ball bearing since generic ball bearing fans may use inferior lubricant in its encased enclosure, since a Ball bearing fan cannot be lubricated.
• Ball Bearing raceway gets damaged(If you drop it lol)
  Dust is less of a factor since the bearings are enclosed.
• Long term wear and tear

Sleeve bearing can fail for these primary reasons,

• Number one is heat, and heat will kill a sleave bearing fan much faster than that of a quality ball bearing fan.
• worn bearing
• reduced fan speed (IE; reducing voltage as many of us do.)
• absence of lubricant, worn out lubricant
• Long term wear and tear
• Dust entering sleeve bearing. In a perfect environment a sleeve bearing can be better than a ball bearing in a sterile environment, but when you stir in dust. heat and dirt into the mix, the sleeve bearing fan goes downhill. Maybe you don't have dust and heat in your pc, I do...

Click to expand...