vdd on nForce2

harlam357 said:

Ok, that makes perfect sense. Just give the mobo a good rub down and it should be fine... I'm going to lap that baby in this Saturday. Then reinstall my NB-1c and see if I can get her stable @250+. Now this is on my primary(1st) rig. My 2nd rig is still kicking right along @250 as configed in my sig. Can't get my multi above 9x though without bringing my idle temps above the 37-40 range, and I want to keep it cool. Needless to say, I'm not impressed with the TR SI-97. It's light but it doesn't perform like my SP-97 does.

Well my 6800 will be here tomorrow. I'm gonna have to install 3dmark05 just to get a baseline on my 5700 and then see what the 6800 will do. Of course I plan on unlocking the 4 extra pixel pipes and 1 extra shader with Riva Tuner. I'm gonna miss coolbits. I do hear that these cards run really hot, so I will probably not oc it for a while. The boost in performance with stock speeds will be enough to knock my socks off. And if this is not enough for me... I'll use eVGA's step-up program to upgrade to the GT a little later. One way or the other, it will be my last AGP card.

Thanks enduro... I'll post some pics after the weekend.

Click to expand...

Sounds good, I can't wait to see how the lapping goes for you, and if it helps, I might try it myself. I just installed a fan over my mosfets, knocked about 15c off my PWM temps, and while I have not verified it with a dmm (we don't know the read points), MBM5 reports my vtt as being about where it should be instead of around 1.15v.

cetoole said:

Sounds good, I can't wait to see how the lapping goes for you, and if it helps, I might try it myself. I just installed a fan over my mosfets, knocked about 15c off my PWM temps, and while I have not verified it with a dmm (we don't know the read points), MBM5 reports my vtt as being about where it should be instead of around 1.15v.

Click to expand...

I'll definitely take some progress pics on this one... so I'll show you how it turned out during and after the surgery. Both of my NB's are bowls, although the one is kicking right along with no lapping- I just think I got lucky and got a good board. The other is ok and may benefit from getting the NB-1c closer to the die. Looks like most folks gain an average of 10fsb after lapping the NB.

That's great about your PWM temps... did you say you have heatsinks on your mosfets or not, I can't remember? If not, now with airflow on them... you might want to try adding some sinks as well. My PWM temps average ~6-8C under my CPU temp on both my boards.

Is your vtt reading under load or idle. My vtt runs about ~.2v high while idle and then straightens out to 50% DDR voltage under load. Is this normal? The vtt should run @ half of vdimm correct?

harlam357 said:

That's great about your PWM temps... did you say you have heatsinks on your mosfets or not, I can't remember? If not, now with airflow on them... you might want to try adding some sinks as well. My PWM temps average ~6-8C under my CPU temp on both my boards.

Click to expand...

I have heatsinks on all chips there, and a Panaflo L1a 80mm fan strapped right over them, so pwm temps are almost exactly that of the CPU, between 30-35 depending on ambient.

harlam357 said:

Is your vtt reading under load or idle. My vtt runs about ~.2v high while idle and then straightens out to 50% DDR voltage under load. Is this normal? The vtt should run @ half of vdimm correct?

Click to expand...

I havn't really load tested it yet after doing that. Seems pretty normal to me, does the pwm temp rise from idle to load for you, because on my board, it seems that the pwm temps immediatly affect my vtt, so as the temps rise, the vtt drops. You are correct, vtt should be exactly 1/2 vdimm.

cetoole said:

I havn't really load tested it yet after doing that. Seems pretty normal to me, does the pwm temp rise from idle to load for you, because on my board, it seems that the pwm temps immediatly affect my vtt, so as the temps rise, the vtt drops. You are correct, vtt should be exactly 1/2 vdimm.

Click to expand...

Yes my PWM temps rise under load. But my vtt also tracks properly under load if vtt should be 50% of vdimm- then it tracks a little higher while idle, I don't think this is a bad sign as long as it isn't badly off. I think a little too high is better than too low. You are also running some pretty high vcores... I have never been above 1.9v. So that may have a lot to do with it. It is strange though b/c I think you board should be able to push that much power without dropping voltages. But then again you are running high vdimm, high vdd, & high vcore. So your mosfets may just be overstressed.

Nothing scientific here, I'm just throwing ideas out there... your guess to the problem is most likely better than mine...

harlam357 said:

Yes my PWM temps rise under load. But my vtt also tracks properly under load if vtt should be 50% of vdimm- then it tracks a little higher while idle, I don't think this is a bad sign as long as it isn't badly off. I think a little too high is better than too low. You are also running some pretty high vcores... I have never been above 1.9v. So that may have a lot to do with it. It is strange though b/c I think you board should be able to push that much power without dropping voltages. But then again you are running high vdimm, high vdd, & high vcore. So your mosfets may just be overstressed.

Nothing scientific here, I'm just throwing ideas out there... your guess to the problem is most likely better than mine...

Click to expand...

Here is my "scientific" answer to why my PWM temps were so high, I am watercooled while you have a nice 92mm fan blowing over your mosfets. The behavior that you are experiencing with vtt dropping as PWM rises is what I have seen on a couple boards, but your load PWM temps are low enough that vtt is still correct. I rarely go over 1.9vcore, only for extreme benching, and even then, 1.94 is where my chip seems to max. Now, I remeber seeing a mod for the NF7 boards that should work exactly the same on the AN7 where they added a 4th phase into the CPU power, so there were extra mosfets on the back of the board. Maybe that and a cap mod would be beneficial, biggest problem is finding the right parts.

cetoole said:

Here is my "scientific" answer to why my PWM temps were so high, I am watercooled while you have a nice 92mm fan blowing over your mosfets. The behavior that you are experiencing with vtt dropping as PWM rises is what I have seen on a couple boards, but your load PWM temps are low enough that vtt is still correct. I rarely go over 1.9vcore, only for extreme benching, and even then, 1.94 is where my chip seems to max. Now, I remeber seeing a mod for the NF7 boards that should work exactly the same on the AN7 where they added a 4th phase into the CPU power, so there were extra mosfets on the back of the board. Maybe that and a cap mod would be beneficial, biggest problem is finding the right parts.

Click to expand...

Ok, I can see your scientific method at work here... I do like my Delta fan too, it puts out a good 72cfm without being Tornado crazy @** loud- and cools my mosfets.

I wouldn't say that my vtt drops b/c my PWM rises. You're right, they do happen simultaneously... but I don't believe one is a cause of the other, or vice-versa. But maybe so... I' guess I'll have to pump up the vcore and see what happens.

The 4th phase sounds like a very interesting mod. See if you can find a guide or link to it for the NF7. I'd like to check that out. I'm no wiz with a soldering iron, so I doubt I would try it- but it sounds quite complex adding another set of mosfets to you board. I am just getting brave enough to possibly try your vdd mod if my NB lapping doesn't help me achieve a higher stable fsb.

harlam357 said:

Ok, I can see your scientific method at work here... I do like my Delta fan too, it puts out a good 72cfm without being Tornado crazy @** loud- and cools my mosfets.

I wouldn't say that my vtt drops b/c my PWM rises. You're right, they do happen simultaneously... but I don't believe one is a cause of the other, or vice-versa. But maybe so... I' guess I'll have to pump up the vcore and see what happens.

The 4th phase sounds like a very interesting mod. See if you can find a guide or link to it for the NF7. I'd like to check that out. I'm no wiz with a soldering iron, so I doubt I would try it- but it sounds quite complex adding another set of mosfets to you board. I am just getting brave enough to possibly try your vdd mod if my NB lapping doesn't help me achieve a higher stable fsb.

Click to expand...

That delta, the HHE 92x38mm with counter-rotating fins, is what I used to use, and it was great for me too. I can't think of any other reason that would explain why when I start the computer without a fan over the mosfets my vtt is around 1.15v and pwm is around 55c, and when I just put a fan over them, with the computer still running, the pwm drops to around 33c and vtt rises to ~1.6v. The four phase power mod can be found here, and if I can find the correct mosfets to do this, I will probably try it. Also, I might try replacing my cpu power caps with Sanyo Oscon or something, maybe some nice Rubycon, or possibly Black Gates, depends on what I can find and prices. The stock abit caps are actually pretty good, so if I can pick up a dead board, I might just do that, and also add them in parallel on the back of the board. My PSU has a couple extra shielded connectors, so I might do that mod too. Maybe this would let me hit 2.9, should at least help my high vcore problems. I am not sure at all if I will ever do this mod because of time, personal lazyness, and mainly, sourcing the components. Besides, if I kill it, I can get a nice NF7-S or DFI UI or Lanparty to pair up with my chip which is pretty good and my BH-5.

Edit: Pics of the mobo:

Sweet! Nice setup. I do have one question though... okay, maybe a few. Why are your dimms in slots 1 & 3? I haven't tried this that's why I'm asking... does that not make your memory run in SC instead of DC? Of course if you are pushing the fsb I can see why you might want to do that- other than that, and the fact that DC doesn't do a whole lot for you on SocketA... why would you run your ram in SC? Just curious...

As far as the mod goes... yeah, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't take the time to attempt it. It's just too risky for me... I might be brave enough to try your vdd mod- but only if I need it. Now on the flipside, I have become quite comfortable pulling the ole' dremel out and whacking a hole in my case. Me and power tools just seem to get along better than me and a soldering iron on PCB. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to soldering some speaker wires or something simple like that, but I'm not so confident about trying that on my ~$90 mobo. Like I said, I may try that vdd mod if necessary... but only if I can't achieve what I want without it.

Again, getting back on topic a bit. Instead of getting to lapping the NB this weekend. I took a side route and pulled the dremel out and whacked a hole in the side of my case for a 92mm fan Placed almost directly across from the cpu fan on rig 1. I'll have to bring the camera home from work and take some up to date pics.

I do have to say that it's nice to see a rig that isn't a bling-bling'ed out with leds, etc. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I just prefer my computer not being a nightlight. Here's a few more recent pics of both of my AN7's.

Rig 1: (updated! better wiring with FSP Blue Storm)


Rig 2: (updated! still decent wiring)

harlam357 said:

Sweet! Nice setup. I do have one question though... okay, maybe a few. Why are your dimms in slots 1 & 3? I haven't tried this that's why I'm asking... does that not make your memory run in SC instead of DC? Of course if you are pushing the fsb I can see why you might want to do that- other than that, and the fact that DC doesn't do a whole lot for you on SocketA... why would you run your ram in SC? Just curious...

As far as the mod goes... yeah, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't take the time to attempt it. It's just too risky for me... I might be brave enough to try your vdd mod- but only if I need it. Now on the flipside, I have become quite comfortable pulling the ole' dremel out and whacking a hole in my case. Me and power tools just seem to get along better than me and a soldering iron on PCB. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to soldering some speaker wires or something simple like that, but I'm not so confident about trying that on my ~$90 mobo. Like I said, I may try that vdd mod if necessary... but only if I can't achieve what I want without it.

Again, getting back on topic a bit. Instead of getting to lapping the NB this weekend. I took a side route and pulled the dremel out and whacked a hole in the side of my case for a 92mm fan Placed almost directly across from the cpu fan on rig 1. I'll have to bring the camera home from work and take some up to date pics.

I do have to say that it's nice to see a rig that isn't a bling-bling'ed out with leds, etc. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I just prefer my computer not being a nightlight. Here's a few more recent pics of both of my AN7's.

Rig 1: (still with messy wiring)

Rig 2: (decent wiring)

Click to expand...

You have much to learn young padawan, my ram is dual channel. Both the way you have it and the way I do are dual channel. It is funny, with that fan over the sinked fets, I am now able to use much higher vcore, I hit 230x12.5 the other day and ran SuperPi at that speed (36 seconds), and I am sure I can at least get a screenshot of 2.9ghz. This was a little over 2vcore. I also am not much for LEDs and lots of lights, I have the ones in my Sunbeam fan controller which are slightly modded to reduce the brightness, and the green in my OCZ Powerstream that I would remove except I don't want to void that warranty (Why not, all others are gone). Unlike you, I love doing vmods and that type of work, but dislike case work. Probably partially because of the solid steel my case is made of. This dislike of case work also lead me to run my amps caseless for weeks. For some reason, while I don't love doing it, wire management isn't that bad. Here is a better image of my comp for you.

I did some other soldering projects before attempting the vmods, you should probably do that. Actually, you can see part of my soldering station on the above pic, it is the thing on top of the case and the black wire. My first was a CMoy headphone amp, and latest is a Pimeta.

Slot 1 and 3 still enables the DC. Cetole has same slots set up as mine. I seem to overclock higher with this configuration.

Lol, you're not a hardcore tweaker yet. If you feel doubt in doing something, I'd say to avoid it as much as possible. It was a nerve-cracking experience for me to do a simple vdd mod to vtt mod. I have my digital multimeters up and running continuously as long as the board is on so I try to avoid overvolting as much as possible. Always measure it twice.

FSBxtreme said:

Slot 1 and 3 still enables the DC. Cetole has same slots set up as mine. I seem to overclock higher with this configuration.

Lol, you're not a hardcore tweaker yet. If you feel doubt in doing something, I'd say to avoid it as much as possible. It was a nerve-cracking experience for me to do a simple vdd mod to vtt mod. I have my digital multimeters up and running continuously as long as the board is on so I try to avoid overvolting as much as possible. Always measure it twice.

Click to expand...

Any reason you chose that vtt mod? The pot mod would be my choice, followed by the vtt=vref. With your mod, you can't set the vdd to optimal voltage, so probably can't get that last 1% out of it.

I'm not quite understand what your question is but I'll try to answer as much as I can.

I did vdd mod with a pod which I am able to push it all the way up to 2V, didn't help any.

I have tried vtt=vref but vtt doesn't track right so I did the cut-trace method instead.

Right now, I have 3 pods to control vdd, vdimm, and vtt.

I think I need DDR booster because my vdimm cannot surpass 3.10V which I think my ram wants it.

FSBxtreme said:

I'm not quite understand what your question is but I'll try to answer as much as I can.

I did vdd mod with a pod which I am able to push it all the way up to 2V, didn't help any.

I have tried vtt=vref but vtt doesn't track right so I did the cut-trace method instead.

Right now, I have 3 pods to control vdd, vdimm, and vtt.

I think I need DDR booster because my vdimm cannot surpass 3.10V which I think my ram wants it.

Click to expand...

OK, I thought you did the vtt=vdd mod, where you adjust the vtt by adjusting the vdd. I have seen this a couple places, but never understood why people did it. Crank that 3.3v rail, if you can. Before getting the booster, I would be temped to try the vdimm=vio mod, as the booster is expensive (unless you got one for free like me). The TCCD doesn't all like the high vdimm, but that would be cool if yours did.

Ok, surgery complete... Lapping the NB took the back seat for a week or two, in the mean time I whacked a new hole in the side of my case for a 92mm fan. I'm glad I did wait b/c lapping the NB took forever!!! I spent around 6 hours on and off- my arm could only take so much at a time. I used enduro's technique by attaching the sandpaper to the bottom of my already lapped NB-1C.

The 400 grit sandpaper couldn't take it off fast enough and I was low on 400 grit... opps So I didn't get down to the very center. After my testing I'm not disappointed that I didn't take the time to get it completely flat.

Here are the b4 and after pics...





Even after lapping my problems continued with usb and network errors at 250fsb... then i tried 245... same thing... the system would continue to prime even though the mouse became unresponsive. System would still memtest perfectly fine at these speeds. I ended up @ 240fsb prime blend stable... not too bad. I am also running only 1.65vdd... being able to use a lower voltage could be the result of lapping the NB and better heat transfer between the chip and heatsink but who knows for sure, the board might have been stable @ 1.65vdd b4.

Now I'm gonna see if I can get 240x10.5 or 240x11 out of it. I fear 240x11 is going to take 2v or more to be stable and I don't want to run my cpu at that kind of voltage- I do want this rig to last for a while.

So cetoole, if you seem to already be hitting the wall with your fsb and have already done the vdd mod... my experience shouldn't convince you to take the time to lap your NB. Not unless you just want better heat transfer, I wouldn't bother.

harlam357 said:

Ok, surgery complete... Lapping the NB took the back seat for a week or two, in the mean time I whacked a new hole in the side of my case for a 92mm fan. I'm glad I did wait b/c lapping the NB took forever!!! I spent around 6 hours on and off- my arm could only take so much at a time. I used enduro's technique by attaching the sandpaper to the bottom of my already lapped NB-1C.

The 400 grit sandpaper couldn't take it off fast enough and I was low on 400 grit... opps So I didn't get down to the very center. After my testing I'm not disappointed that I didn't take the time to get it completely flat.

Here are the b4 and after pics...

Even after lapping my problems continued with usb and network errors at 250fsb... then i tried 245... same thing... the system would continue to prime even though the mouse became unresponsive. System would still memtest perfectly fine at these speeds. I ended up @ 240fsb prime blend stable... not too bad. I am also running only 1.65vdd... being able to use a lower voltage could be the result of lapping the NB and better heat transfer between the chip and heatsink but who knows for sure, the board might have been stable @ 1.65vdd b4.

Now I'm gonna see if I can get 240x10.5 or 240x11 out of it. I fear 240x11 is going to take 2v or more to be stable and I don't want to run my cpu at that kind of voltage- I do want this rig to last for a while.

So cetoole, if you seem to already be hitting the wall with your fsb and have already done the vdd mod... my experience shouldn't convince you to take the time to lap your NB. Not unless you just want better heat transfer, I wouldn't bother.

Click to expand...

Sadly, I did another "mod" yesterday, and bought a DFI Ultra Infinity used, which has been stable at 250fsb before, and has not seen the "Iron of Colin" yet. There are like 8 mods I can do to this board, and I think that it will be the better way for me to reach my goals. I will still visit, but very soon, abit will be in a box. BTW, good job on that lapping.

Good job on the lap man Didn't I tell you it took forever.............I was like what in the hell this thing is a soup bowl ha ha ha. Sorry it didn't help you pass your wall but it will keep your NB temps down and prevent heat death.

cetoole said:

Sadly, I did another "mod" yesterday, and bought a DFI Ultra Infinity used, which has been stable at 250fsb before, and has not seen the "Iron of Colin" yet. There are like 8 mods I can do to this board, and I think that it will be the better way for me to reach my goals. I will still visit, but very soon, abit will be in a box. BTW, good job on that lapping.

Click to expand...

Hey... I wouldn't call that sad. As I'm absolutely sure you know, that DFI board is supposed to be as good or better oc'er than the NF7-S. I wish you good luck. I do have one question though, if your DFI is known to already do 250Mhz, why do the mods? By doing them do you think you'll reach something higher than 250Mhz? I can't remember ever seeing anyone that hit more than 260Mhz. on NF2... so I'm just curious about what your goal is.

enduro said:

Good job on the lap man Didn't I tell you it took forever.............I was like what in the hell this thing is a soup bowl ha ha ha. Sorry it didn't help you pass your wall but it will keep your NB temps down and prevent heat death.

Click to expand...

Thanks to both you and cetoole for the props on the lap. I guess I misread your sticky... I thought that you were saying with the 400 grit you wiped it out in no time. Obviously this is not what you meant. Just that you shouldn't start with 600 or you will be there for the next 2 days. Man, that freakin' took f-o-r-e-v-e-r.

I could have pulled out the salsa and a bag of chips and went to town on that bad boy b4 the lap. My question is... why does nvidia manufactuer the NB like that in the first place? It's terrible!

Overall though, I am glad I did it... a little tiged that I didn't get it completely flat, but that's ok. I could definitely tell when I applied some AS5 that it was making much better contact. Someday when I'm ripping this rig apart again I may finish it up, but for now I'm going to leave it be. It does make me also want to lap my other AN7 that is doing 250Mhz. Even if it doesn't get me any further... to do it just for the enhanced heat transfer- which should lead to a longer life for the chip itself.

harlam357 said:

Hey... I wouldn't call that sad. As I'm absolutely sure you know, that DFI board is supposed to be as good or better oc'er than the NF7-S. I wish you good luck. I do have one question though, if your DFI is known to already do 250Mhz, why do the mods? By doing them do you think you'll reach something higher than 250Mhz? I can't remember ever seeing anyone that hit more than 260Mhz. on NF2... so I'm just curious about what your goal is.

Click to expand...

You obviously havn't been to xtremesystems, I think the record is 290, and there are several people in the 260-270 range. Part of the mods I am going to be doing are vcore, ovp, droop, and vdimm, which will help my total OC, and the vdimm will let me give my BH-5 what it needs to shine. I also plan on doing vdd, vagp, vsouth, and maybe cap mods.

harlam357 said:

Thanks to both you and cetoole for the props on the lap. I guess I misread your sticky... I thought that you were saying with the 400 grit you wiped it out in no time. Obviously this is not what you meant. Just that you shouldn't start with 600 or you will be there for the next 2 days. Man, that freakin' took f-o-r-e-v-e-r.

I could have pulled out the salsa and a bag of chips and went to town on that bad boy b4 the lap. My question is... why does nvidia manufactuer the NB like that in the first place? It's terrible!

Overall though, I am glad I did it... a little tiged that I didn't get it completely flat, but that's ok. I could definitely tell when I applied some AS5 that it was making much better contact. Someday when I'm ripping this rig apart again I may finish it up, but for now I'm going to leave it be. It does make me also want to lap my other AN7 that is doing 250Mhz. Even if it doesn't get me any further... to do it just for the enhanced heat transfer- which should lead to a longer life for the chip itself.

Click to expand...

I might lap my NB when I get the DFI UI, but I will be sure that it runs good first. I just hope I can get a lap job like you got.

cetoole said:

You obviously havn't been to xtremesystems, I think the record is 290, and there are several people in the 260-270 range. Part of the mods I am going to be doing are vcore, ovp, droop, and vdimm, which will help my total OC, and the vdimm will let me give my BH-5 what it needs to shine. I also plan on doing vdd, vagp, vsouth, and maybe cap mods.

Click to expand...

Wow!!! 290Mhz!!! That's nuts!!! Yes, obviously I have never heard of such clocks on NF2. Like I said, I've seen some people in the 260 range but never 270+. Good luck! My young padawan skills do not provide the necessary tools to achieve such goals.

As far as the mods you plan, I am familiar with all of them except the ovp & droop. Can you please explain these two mods and their purpose?

cetoole said:

I might lap my NB when I get the DFI UI, but I will be sure that it runs good first. I just hope I can get a lap job like you got.

Click to expand...

I agree, make sure it runs good and then do the lap when you do the vdd mod. Makes sense to do them both at the same time IMO. I don't see why you wouldn't get as good or better lap than I got... I'm no pro. That was my first chip lap. Although I have done several heatsinks now, so that helped my confidence while tackling this job.

harlam357 said:

Wow!!! 290Mhz!!! That's nuts!!! Yes, obviously I have never heard of such clocks on NF2. Like I said, I've seen some people in the 260 range but never 270+. Good luck! My young padawan skills do not provide the necessary tools to achieve such goals.

As far as the mods you plan, I am familiar with all of them except the ovp & droop. Can you please explain these two mods and their purpose?

Click to expand...

OVP is for cpu vcore, to let me go higher, and droop is to stop or lessen the amount that vcore droops

harlam357 said:

I agree, make sure it runs good and then do the lap when you do the vdd mod. Makes sense to do them both at the same time IMO. I don't see why you wouldn't get as good or better lap than I got... I'm no pro. That was my first chip lap. Although I have done several heatsinks now, so that helped my confidence while tackling this job.

Click to expand...

I have never lapped before.