My email correspondence with AMD - THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR ALL WIN2K USERS

AMD doesn't say much when you ask them questions, but the correspondence I have been having with them over the last week is very interesting, and very important for all of the Windows 2000, and AMD Athlon XP users.

The emails speak for themselves, but to make it an easier read I have Highlighted the most important, and interesting bits.

Please take the time to read this, especially the last two emails.

My first email to them, about the supposed problem with Athlon processors, and AGP video cards in Windows 2000, and Windows XP (Later AMD informed me that the issue is not present in Windows XP, only in Windows 2000):

Email from felinusz to AMD

It has recently come to my attention that some AMD processors have a compatibiltiy issue with Windows XP (NOTE: AMD LATER STATED THAT THE ISSUE IS NOT PRESENT IN WINDOWS XP, ONLY IN WINDOWS 2000), and Windows 2000 where applications that use an AGP graphics adaptor will freeze, or exhibit instability. Here, on your website - http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_756_759^871^2367,00.html - is a registry change for Windows 2000 which fixes the issue. This error, and the need to install the Windows registry fix, has only been *confirmed* by you to be present
with the use of Nvidia GeForce 256 and Matrox G400 video cards. Myself,
and several of my associates, are wondering if this problem is known
to be present in machines using other types of video adaptors besides
the ones you have listed (GeForce 256, Matrox G400 AGP adaptors);
specifically newer AGP graphics cards. Thank you for your time, I appreciate
your help, and advice.

Click to expand...

Which AMD replied to in the following email:

Email from AMD to felinusz

Thank you for contacting AMD's Technical Service Center. This
issue was really between how the OS and the processor were handling
AGP Gart table paging. I am not aware of it being tied to a specific
video card but more between the OS and processor. The registry changes how the paging between memory, OS and Processor is handled. If you are running Win XP and NOT Win 2K, then you should not need the registry patch. Likewise, you should be able to use any video card (old or new) without any issues or corrupted data. If you are running Win 2K, then simply install the patch and you should be fine with any video card. If you are running Linux, then simply compile with the nopentium switch and you should be in good shape as well. Hope this helps. If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact me.

Happy Holidays,
Jay Taylor
Supervisor / Apps Engineer
AMD Technical Service Center

Click to expand...

I replied with another email, and some more questions about this issue, and some other stuff (some of which I shouldn't have bothered to ask - because we all know that AMD would never answer them):

Email from felinusz to AMD

Thank you for your quick response Jay, your help is much appreciated
by myself and my colleagues.

I do actually have another couple of quick questions for you
regarding this issue, and AMD processors in general.

Is the fix for this issue applicable for all video cards, using all
new and old video card drivers? Is this registry fix distributed
in any of the Windows 2000 Service packs from Microsoft?

Unrelated to the AGP issue, I am wondering about the supposed
multiplier lock on new Duron Applebred, and Mobile
Athlon XP-M Barton core processors. Are the desktop Duron Applebred
processors being produced with a hard-multiplier
lock, like the new desktop Athlon XP Bartons, and the last
Thoroughbred Athlon processors? Are the mobile Barton
2400+ processors, and up, being produced with a multiplier lock? How
does a multiplier lock incorporated into a mobile
Athlon procesors affect the Powernow! feature that mobile Athlon
processors incoporate? If they are, indeed, being
produced with a multiplier lock, I am wondering if you can tell me
which production week was the first to have the lock
incorporated?

Lastly, I am wondering if the Thoroughbred core line of Athlon XP
Desktop processors has been discontinued.

Click to expand...

The answer I really wanted was whether or not the patch for Athlon processors and the AGP issue was included in any Windows 2000 service paks. I shouldn't have asked about steppings, locked processors, and powernow, because AMD doesn't like to put anything about those topics in writing.

Email from AMD to felinusz

Thank you for contacting AMD's Technical Service Center. Since the
AGP issue is between the AMD AGP GART driver and the OS, the patch is
required regardless of what video card and drivers you are using.

Unfortunately I we cannot provide stepping information, or details on
work week changes. This would also include which processors have
locked clock multipliers and which do not. We apologize for not being
able to provide more information.

Manufacturing has moved on to model 10 which is still based on the
.13 micron manufacturing process. Model 8 may still be manufactured
at certain speeds, but is not in full scale production.


Hope this helps. If you have any other questions, please feel free
to contact me.

Regards,
Ryan Gardner
CPU Specialist
AMD TSC

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This response only answered one of my questions (the Thoroughbred one). Although unrelated to the AGP fix, Their answer to my Thoroughbred question implies that some Thoroughbreds are still being manufactured, just not in full-scale quantities. I sent them another email to clear up the AGP issue in Windows 2000:

Email from felinusz to AMD

Thanks for the quick, and helpful, response. I am still wondering if the registry patch for this problem with Athlon processors, AGP video adapters,and Windows 2000 is included within any of Microsoft's Windows 2000 service paks.

Thank you for your help, and time.

Click to expand...

To which I received an answer:

Email from AMD to felinusz

No, it is not included in any service packs unfortunately.


Regards,
Ryan

Click to expand...

So, why isn't this fix - which causes crashing, and freezing in Windows 2000 when you use any AGP video card, with any driver revisions, with any Athlon processor - not inculded in any of Microsoft's service paks for Windows 2000?

What is going on here? Has this simply been overlooked? This is a fairly serious issue, and makes me wonder what other known problems are floating about.

If you use Windows 2000, and haven't installed the registry fix, I suggest you do so immediately. The registry patch is linked below.

CLICK ON THIS TEXT IF YOU USE WINDOWS 2000

I would appreciate any comments and thoughts about this.

wow!
i have 20 comps here at work all on Win2k most with AGP and AMD.... cant say ive had any problem but i will patch the ones that need it this weekend. and my main/2nd rig at home too.
way to squeeze info out of thoes "stones"!!

I am unable to download the patch on any of my numerous AMD computers. I get the following error:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management]
"LargePageMinimum"=dword:ffffffff

Anyone else get this?

MRD

Yes - I should have mentioned that!

The link provided will take you to a page with some text on it:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contr
ol\Session Manager\Memory Management]
"LargePageMinimum"=dword:ffffffff

Click to expand...

Save the page, (File, "Save As") and it will be saved as "largePageMinimum.reg" - run this file, and the registry change should be automatically applied.

Alternatively, you can apply the change yourself, in the Windows registry you need to change the bit that is located -
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contr
ol\Session Manager\Memory Management]
- in the registry. You need to change the value of:
"LargePageMinimum" dword: (change it to) ffffffff
When you open the registry you will see what I mean.

I have attached a picture of "regedit" - the program you need to use to edit your registry manually. This picture was taken on my Windows XP machine - but you do the same thing in Windows 2000.

Click on "untitled" below to see the picture.

If you can't get it to work correctly, just manually edit it yourself.

Here's the link to the Microsoft doc detailing the process:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;270715

1. Start Registry Editor (Regedt32.exe).
2. Locate and click the following key in the registry:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management
3. On the Edit menu, click Add Value, and then add the following registry value:

Value name: LargePageMinimum
Data type: REG_DWORD
Radix: Hexadecimal
Data value: 0xffffffff
4. Quit Registry Editor.
5. Restart the computer.

I'll be very interested to see if this works because I am experiencing hanging on 2 computers running AMD processors and AGP graphics cards and the problems are isolated to heavily graphical apps/games.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

MRD

EDIT: cross-posted; thanks for answering my question, I misunderstood initially how to download the patch, but I figured it out.

I should also have added that this issue makes itself apparant mostly while using Heavy 3D applications that utilize your AGP video card, especially when you have an overclocked processor, and an overclocked processor FSB.

I hope it works for you MRD - thanks for the more detailed registry editing instructions!

Good to know that thoroughbred B's, the greatest processor ever made, is still not dead. I still need them to be available to build my dream machine. I don't feel like modding my duron for the extra cache.

I found that (the Thoroughbed bit) particularly interesting, because all my local computer store owners kep telling me tha the Thoroguhbred's are discontinued, and will never be in stock again.

I think they might be referring to Thoroughbred core Durons, no Thoroughbred Athlon XP chip has been sighted past week 39 of 2003.

i just DL'ed and ran the file...all went fine on my main (1800 sig)

Time for an email to Microsoft and/or the Inquirer felinusz.

On second thought, just get Inq to contact MS, I doubt MS will reply seriously.

I just want to say I remember the threads where this topic became an issue and when felinusz got the idea to take it upon himself to get to the bottom of this issue.

It's nice to see someone with tenacity willing to do the work it takes when an issue like this comes up.

Thanks felinusz!

I have mailed the enquirer about this, hopefully I will get a reply from them sometime soon

Thanks for this man, my card is in the mail and I'm sure this thread will save me a lot of swearing.

I belive it should be stressed that it is more likely that this is a Windows 2000 issue only.

AMD claims that this is not a compatibiltiy issue with Windows XP, or any other Windows operating system so that would be contrary to the highlighted part stating that this is also a "...compatibiltiy issue with Windows XP," felinusz

thnx for the heads up, thankfully everything has migrated to xp or linux on this end.

No problem guys, it was fun asking AMD questions in the first place (I might even do it again sometime ) !

I added a note to the quote of my original email that should end any confusion about Windows XP being affected .

This isn't too big a deal for most of us, since most of us are on XP anyways - but it is really, really hilarious that something this big wasn't fixed in any of the many service paks for Windows 2000, which is still a popular OS (and which has been around for how long? 3 years? ). I want to know why AMD didn't persue this with Microsoft!

posted by felinusz
AMD processors have a compatibiltiy issue with Windows XP (NOTE: AMD LATER STATED THAT THE ISSUE IS NOT PRESENT IN WINDOWS XP, ONLY IN WINDOWS 2000), and Windows 2000 where applications that use an AGP graphics adaptor will freeze, or exhibit instability.

Click to expand...

quoted from AMD
If you are running Win XP and NOT Win 2K, then you should not need the registry patch.

Click to expand...

from one 2K user to another....bump

i never had any problems but thanks for the info.

i have had problems in tony hawk 4 and simpsons hit and run at over 2.2ghz. Also running 2k, wonder if this will do the trick. It'll fold all day long at 2.4, just those couple games so I have been leaving it at 2.2 just to avoid rebooting to play. I'll have to wait until tuesday wnhe my sapphire 9700pro shows up and I can ditch this pci vid card that's been holding its place. no games for awhile now, itll be nice.....thanks for this dood.