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An In-Depth Discussion on CPU Architecture
- Thread starter Foxie3a
- Start date
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- Apr 27, 2002
Foxie3a said:
explanation of cpu voltage
-think of the lines as signals
+ = + = = + =
its easy to tell the +'s and ='s appart......jack up the clockspeed
now we have signals closer together AND more signals overall with the same amount of power.....meaning they are small and closer
+=+==+= .....now its a little more difficult
now if we raise the voltage the signals get stronger and thus easier to tell apart.
+=+==+=
temperature is important for 2 reasons
1) silicon melts at high enough temps
2) resistance rises with temperature. higher resistance means weaker signals for the same amount of voltage.
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9mmCensor
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Themperature is a relitive measurement of heat. It is measure in degreese, mainly Celsius and Feirenhiet. Heat kills electronics. Dont believe me then take a lighter to any electrical component.
Barton is a name. In computers it is used to describe the generation of AMD (advanced micro devises) Athlon XP processors with 512k of L2 cache.
Barton is a name. In computers it is used to describe the generation of AMD (advanced micro devises) Athlon XP processors with 512k of L2 cache.
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- Jan 19, 2003
Transistors are made up of 3 very thin layers of silicon. One of these layers (middle layer?) conducts electricity when the transistor is "switched on", and it insulates when it's "switched off". At too high of a voltage, electricity can get through a transistor that is "switched off".
When a chip gets hotter, resistance increases, and so you must increase the voltage for the same speed. With the voltage increase comes a higher increase in temps. This is when better cooling becomes necesary.
When a chip gets hotter, resistance increases, and so you must increase the voltage for the same speed. With the voltage increase comes a higher increase in temps. This is when better cooling becomes necesary.
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9mmCensor said:
I think foxie knows all this, but wants to go deeper into the subject.
OP
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- Sep 7, 2003
- Thread Starter
- #6
I can not beleive this..I say that I am tired of hearing all of this crap that everyone asks all day long and I answer day in and day out..and what do you guys do..you tell me more about it, but not really more, just more of what I already know..why do you do this to me? are you trying to get me mad?
is squeekygeek the only one with inteligence out of you?
And thank you, that little explanation of transistors was nice, but too bad it can't really be continued in a full out thread
is squeekygeek the only one with inteligence out of you?
And thank you, that little explanation of transistors was nice, but too bad it can't really be continued in a full out thread
9mmCensor
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oops sorry i miss read your post, i thought you wanted to know what 'barton' and 'temperature' ment, which i will admit thought was rather odd.
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- Apr 27, 2002
Foxie3a said:
the term is electromigration. By increasing the voltage you begin breaking down the actual substrates that build the transistors on the chip. After some point, they will break down until one of them stops working, at which point the chip becomes useless.
the point electromigration occurs depends on the architecture.
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- Purdue University, IN
Grumpy man.
Explain what you want and maybe actually start the topic if you want to get anything out of it.
Explain what you want and maybe actually start the topic if you want to get anything out of it.
OP
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I was getting people warmed up if they had some interesting ideas, but never thought that they should talk about them..
Comments Edited:
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Silversinksam
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Comments Edited:
RULE #1
1. Absolutely NO personal attacks will be tolerated, no exceptions!
Please take a moment and read the FORUM RULES
Silversinksam
Forum Moderator
Re: Re: An In-Depth Discussion on CPU Architecture
Technically yes, but a processor won't get hot enough to melt silicon under its own power. When you fry a CPU, the first thing to go is usually the solder pads that attach the die to the package. Those melt around 200-250C, much lower than the 1410C melting point of silicon.
Electromigration occurs in the metal interconnects, not the transistors or the substrate.
zabomb4163 said:
Technically yes, but a processor won't get hot enough to melt silicon under its own power. When you fry a CPU, the first thing to go is usually the solder pads that attach the die to the package. Those melt around 200-250C, much lower than the 1410C melting point of silicon.
zabomb4163 said:
Electromigration occurs in the metal interconnects, not the transistors or the substrate.
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- San diego or UC Davis
I havn't read the thread yet, but this small article I found intresting. http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/action/printarticle/1482/
and
http://granite.sru.edu/~dawna/paper.html
and
http://granite.sru.edu/~dawna/paper.html
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And the switch to copper interconnects greatly reduced the effects of electromigration.
Here's a link about it anyway:
http://www.csl.mete.metu.edu.tr/Electromigration/emig.htm
Cool, isn't it?
Here's a link about it anyway:
http://www.csl.mete.metu.edu.tr/Electromigration/emig.htm
Cool, isn't it?
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Re: Re: An In-Depth Discussion on CPU Architecture
Only with some materials. resistance lowers with rise in temperature in copper.zabomb4163 said:
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- Apr 27, 2002
Re: Re: Re: An In-Depth Discussion on CPU Architecture
no....
the temperature coefficient of resistance for copper is 0.00393 ohm.
http://www.fiskalloy.com/pdf-pages/cf-electrical.pdf
http://www.powerdesigners.com/InfoWeb/design_center/Design_Tips/ah-25.pdf
-where did you get the idea it went down?
dz said:
no....
the temperature coefficient of resistance for copper is 0.00393 ohm.
http://www.fiskalloy.com/pdf-pages/cf-electrical.pdf
http://www.powerdesigners.com/InfoWeb/design_center/Design_Tips/ah-25.pdf
-where did you get the idea it went down?
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2002
Gnufsh said:
intel's explanation of Electromigration
http://www.intel.com/technology/itj/q31998/articles/art_2.htm (page5)
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So that would mean that if you had the chip cool enough to greatly reduce inulation, then too high a vcore at any frequency would cause errors by letting the current through the transistors when they are closed?
Ermm, *EDIT* You sound like hitler ffs calm down, people give you their time to help you with what they believe to be good answers whether they tie in exactly with what YOU wanted or not doesnt really mean you can flame them.
You may do well to take your own advice. What I edited out is never acceptable in these forums.
LutaWicasa
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Bigdogbmx said:
silicon and germanium have a negative temperature coefficient of resistance . meaning......resistance decreases with increasing temperature. our copper's resistance on the other hand increases with increasing temperature.
Combine these 2 facts and it becomes obvious why lower temperatures are better for processors.
lower temperatures mean our insulator is more effective and our copper has less resistance..... thus allowing for more voltage without errors. which is why phase change users are able to user higher voltages more effectively.
raising the voltage increases the risk signals pass through the insulator. combine this with lower resistance insulator and higher resistance copper and it becomes obvious why oc'ed systems cannot tolerate the high temperatures that a cpu at stock voltage will.
if you do not believe me. undervolt your processor then turn off your case fans. your processor will be stable at higher temperatures than it was with higher voltages.
*edited*
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