So I'm debating an SSD, but I don't have much money, or knowledge of them

jamesman32 · 11-05-09, 03:33 PM

I've been thinking lately, my rig is fast in gaming and applications, but my boot times suck, all things considered, and my programs don't load all that fast.

Obvious answer: Get an SSD

But, SATA III is coming out early next year, and I don't have much money at this point in time. Plus, it's only really impacting my boot times, right? It wont get me more FPS in games? I don't know much about SSDs, but I like the speed so far, and the smaller form factor they seem to have.

So what do you storage people recommend? Do I bite on something small and cheap now, or wait for SATA III motherboards and drives, and then splurge on something more expensive. Are HDDs slowing things down all that much for me?

Evilsizer · 11-05-09, 08:19 PM

well besides loading windows faster, it also loads programs faster. simply no moving parts and a access time of .1ms-.2ms vs 4.7ms for the fastest desktop HD. for a cpu that is huge to have that kind of reduction in access time to the HD. it is that much faster it can access and process info.. the only thing that would be faster for the cpu is putting the NAND flash directly with the cpu...

the go now or go later, is up to you.. ssd's are still kinda pricey so is around $220 for 64gigs sit ok with you? how much space do you need for your primary drive. for the longest time i used a 80gig seagate till i went with my first SSD@30gigs to my raid-0 of two 60gig drives.

one thing you are right on it wont get your more FPS but gaming will be a bit smoother. depending on the game, i noticed crysis/warhead ran a bit smoother with my ssd's then off the 320gig seagate i have. slight pauses is what i kept noticing from the seagate drive..

also check out this thread..
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=623807

jmdixon85 · 11-05-09, 08:35 PM

I say wait till SATA3 is out and all the bugs ironed out, I can also see SSD's coming down in price faster and faster as demand grows.

EarthDog · 11-05-09, 09:03 PM

SataIII isnt going to make a difference in single drive SSD performance so dont make that part of the decision making process. Looks like Evil has you covered.

visbits · 11-05-09, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarthDog

SataIII isnt going to make a difference in single drive SSD performance so dont make that part of the decision making process. Looks like Evil has you covered.

Not true, the limiting read factor for intel ssd is current the bandwith of sata.

Evilsizer · 11-05-09, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by visbits

Not true, the limiting read factor for intel ssd is current the bandwith of sata.

well i find that i bit hard to swallow... SATA II or SATA 3G is up to 300MB/s. highest i have seen a single intel or vertex is right around 240-245MB/s in some cases. hardly even close to 300MB/s.

jmdixon85 · 11-05-09, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by visbits

Not true, the limiting read factor for intel ssd is current the bandwith of sata.

Really? I will have to look into this! A 300MB's single SSD!

Where did you get your info from Visbits?

jamesman32 · 11-05-09, 09:23 PM

Thanks for the responses thus far. As it looks, I'm going to be buying a Thuban and an AM3 890FX board in June, if they stay on track for release around April, so I'll have the SATA III support ready to go. I've heard some things about Rectangular HDDs though, and how SSDs will be then pushed to laptops only, and RHDDs will replace desktop HDDs. Is that correct?

jmdixon85 · 11-05-09, 09:26 PM

^^Mmmm, I realy dont think so.

EDIT: 2nd Mmmmm??? RHDD's? Dont think I've even heard of them.

Evilsizer · 11-05-09, 09:30 PM

k im gonna ask, wth is RHDD? first i have heard of it... though if im right RHDD=Removable Hard Disk Drive, if that is the case LOL...

ocz has planned for a 3.5in ssd, from some new articles i posted here in the past. samsung stated on current nm process for NAND flash in a 3.5in FF they could get up to 1TB of storage...

jamesman32 · 11-05-09, 09:59 PM

Rather than typing out Rectangular HDDs a second time, I abbreviated it to RHDDs. Probably not the "official" acronym just yet, but oh well. Anyone heard anything about them?

EarthDog · 11-05-09, 10:02 PM

Perpendicular??

jmdixon85 · 11-05-09, 10:03 PM

Nope, not me. 3.5" HDD's are already retangular arn't they, lol. Really have no idea of what you are referring to?

Evilsizer · 11-05-09, 10:06 PM

james is this what your talking about?
http://www.hdd.ji2.com/blog/2009/06/...itional-style/

jamesman32 · 11-05-09, 10:16 PM

Yeah, I think so. My friend from OCN told me they'd be coming along for early 2011, but seeing as how nobody has heard of them, I guess they probably aren't.

Evilsizer · 11-05-09, 10:19 PM

well IMO fusion IO has a better chance of that then the RHDD..
X25m vs Fusion IO

jmdixon85 · 11-05-09, 10:22 PM

I don't see that happening. No heads and no moving parts, Thats where my money is at.

Mr Alpha · 11-06-09, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsizer

well i find that i bit hard to swallow... SATA II or SATA 3G is up to 300MB/s. highest i have seen a single intel or vertex is right around 240-245MB/s in some cases. hardly even close to 300MB/s.

300MB/s is the theoretical speed of SATA 3G. If you look at read speed results for SSDs they all seem to hit a wall around 255-260MB/s. I'm guessing this is the real limit of current SATA 3G controllers.

I.M.O.G. · 11-06-09, 09:01 AM

No one mentioned the 64GB drive from Kingston that's going to hit around the $100 price point. If you don't have money that may be a good option!

I heard about it in this subform, you may want to do a query for "kingston SSD*" and it should be one of the most recent results.

visbits · 11-06-09, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Alpha

300MB/s is the theoretical speed of SATA 3G. If you look at read speed results for SSDs they all seem to hit a wall around 255-260MB/s. I'm guessing this is the real limit of current SATA 3G controllers.

You guys just assume there is 0 overhead... Don't forget you needs lots of channels for commands and all that good stuff.

Since when can ya buy something that's rated at X speed and make it perform at that? I've yet to see ram or any thing that matches up to the manufacture ratings for stock.

HDCHOPPER · 11-07-09, 03:29 AM

jamesman32 find your self the middle of the road type without a jmicron controller and you should be happy (cheap gets you stuttering & mad

)
and SSD will never be laptop only many are being set to the wild in normal form fator now inluding pcie types

ratbuddy · 11-07-09, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmdixon85

I don't see that happening. No heads and no moving parts, Thats where my money is at.

It doesn't really have moving parts. Well, sorta. From what I can tell it sort of vibrates. http://www.dataslide.com/technology.html shows it, and it looks good in theory. Probably vaporware though.

cyberfish · 11-07-09, 07:26 PM

It's all speculation at the moment. It will at least take another year to reach the market at the ultra-high-end, and another 2 years for the prices to go down to a reasonable level.

And by that time something better will be coming out... and you should wait another 3 years for it.

For me, for things I want, I just wait until the price dropping rate drops to ~20%/year (like the current SSDs). Ultra-high end stuff drop in price WAY faster than that. More like 50%/year. You have to draw the line somewhere, depending on your budget, how bad you want it, etc, or you will be waiting indefinitely, since prices will always be dropping, and new things will always be coming out.

HDCHOPPER · 11-08-09, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbuddy

It doesn't really have moving parts. Well, sorta. From what I can tell it sort of vibrates. http://www.dataslide.com/technology.html shows it, and it looks good in theory. Probably vaporware though.

Wow that is cool , like a pizeo pickup on a guitar

what will thay think of next lol ,
cyberfish said it O so well , don't play the waiting game it's a loose/loose situtation (unless your rich

)

tachi1247 · 11-08-09, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesman32

I've been thinking lately, my rig is fast in gaming and applications, but my boot times suck, all things considered, and my programs don't load all that fast.

Obvious answer: Get an SSD

But, SATA III is coming out early next year, and I don't have much money at this point in time. Plus, it's only really impacting my boot times, right? It wont get me more FPS in games? I don't know much about SSDs, but I like the speed so far, and the smaller form factor they seem to have.

So what do you storage people recommend? Do I bite on something small and cheap now, or wait for SATA III motherboards and drives, and then splurge on something more expensive. Are HDDs slowing things down all that much for me?

i'm in the same boat as you and have been keeping an eye on everything for quite a while. It seems to me that there are 2 choices....get a cheap drive (JMicron, etc.) which really stinks and would be slower than a velociraptor or get a decent intel or OCZ vertex drive which imo aren't cheap. $230 for a 60gb drive isn't my idea of cheap. I wouldn't consider anything less than 60gb either as win7 w/XP vitualization (64 bit)requries more than 30gb of hard drive space.

i'm going to wait until next year when intel releases their 3rd gen ssd drives which should fix their deficiency in sequential writes and push read speeds into the sata III territory. right now most drives are close to maxing out sata II but don't quite do it. by next year they will and the price should drop another 25-30% or more. the G1 to G2 intel drives saw price drops that were slightly greater than this so i would think those estimates are conservative.

EarthDog · 11-08-09, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by visbits

Not true, the limiting read factor for intel ssd is current the bandwith of sata.

Links...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsizer

well i find that i bit hard to swallow... SATA II or SATA 3G is up to 300MB/s. highest i have seen a single intel or vertex is right around 240-245MB/s in some cases. hardly even close to 300MB/s.

...yep......!

Evilsizer · 11-08-09, 10:10 PM

you know after thinking about it, read speeds might be higher if they went a dual sata route. say a single drive using two sata ports, there is your 600MB/s. though that is prolly harder to do then just using the new standard. would be interesting though, something like SAS, but called DSATA.

Mr Alpha · 11-09-09, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarthDog

Links...

Links

Quote:

Ha! Read speed is ridiculous on these drives. See the wall at around 260MB/s? We're hitting the limit of what's possible over 3Gbps SATA. Expect read speeds to go up once we start seeing SATA 6Gbps drives and controllers to support them.

Blazing fire · 11-09-09, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsizer

well i find that i bit hard to swallow... SATA II or SATA 3G is up to 300MB/s. highest i have seen a single intel or vertex is right around 240-245MB/s in some cases. hardly even close to 300MB/s.

Quote:

Originally Posted by visbits

You guys just assume there is 0 overhead... Don't forget you needs lots of channels for commands and all that good stuff.

Since when can ya buy something that's rated at X speed and make it perform at that? I've yet to see ram or any thing that matches up to the manufacture ratings for stock.

"You guys just assume there is 0 overhead" I agree. Just because the therotertical bandwidth of SATA 2 is 300mb/s, doesn't mean that the device would trasfer it at 300mb/s, even if the device is capable of much more.

11-05-09, 03:33 PM	#1
jamesman32 Aircooling & AMD CPU/Mobo Content Editor Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Suffield, Connecticut	So I'm debating an SSD, but I don't have much money, or knowledge of them I've been thinking lately, my rig is fast in gaming and applications, but my boot times suck, all things considered, and my programs don't load all that fast. Obvious answer: Get an SSD But, SATA III is coming out early next year, and I don't have much money at this point in time. Plus, it's only really impacting my boot times, right? It wont get me more FPS in games? I don't know much about SSDs, but I like the speed so far, and the smaller form factor they seem to have. So what do you storage people recommend? Do I bite on something small and cheap now, or wait for SATA III motherboards and drives, and then splurge on something more expensive. Are HDDs slowing things down all that much for me? __________________ No, it's not a hardware problem. Your computer just doesn't like you.

11-05-09, 08:19 PM	#2
Evilsizer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Austin,Texas	well besides loading windows faster, it also loads programs faster. simply no moving parts and a access time of .1ms-.2ms vs 4.7ms for the fastest desktop HD. for a cpu that is huge to have that kind of reduction in access time to the HD. it is that much faster it can access and process info.. the only thing that would be faster for the cpu is putting the NAND flash directly with the cpu... the go now or go later, is up to you.. ssd's are still kinda pricey so is around $220 for 64gigs sit ok with you? how much space do you need for your primary drive. for the longest time i used a 80gig seagate till i went with my first SSD@30gigs to my raid-0 of two 60gig drives. one thing you are right on it wont get your more FPS but gaming will be a bit smoother. depending on the game, i noticed crysis/warhead ran a bit smoother with my ssd's then off the 320gig seagate i have. slight pauses is what i kept noticing from the seagate drive.. also check out this thread.. http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=623807 __________________ i7 920@3.6ghz \| Asus RE-II-Gene \| OCZ3P1333LV3GK \| (2)4850CF \| C650TX \| OCZ AGILITY 60gig(x2 in raid-0) 2 i7 860's(1 WIP!), 1 i5 750 for rosetta! 2x9600GO's for FAH ATM! Looking for some info on the Abit IP35-Pro? Want a mATX P55 board with overclocking features? currently on hold "I Love To Camp!" "Comensing Shock Therapy!" HeatWare

11-05-09, 08:35 PM	#3
jmdixon85 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Cumbria (UK)	I say wait till SATA3 is out and all the bugs ironed out, I can also see SSD's coming down in price faster and faster as demand grows. __________________ Main System/File Server CPU: Q9650 @ stock due to crap mobo (Cooled by AC Freezer Xtreme)/C2D E6550 @ 2.33Ghz (OCZ Vanquisher - Passive) Mainboard: Asus P5N-D (nForce 750i)/Asus P5GX-MX1333 RAM: 2x 2GB OCZ Reaper HPC DDR2 1066mhz/4GB DDR2 667 Mhz Video: nVidia GTX 260 core 216 @ 725/1215/Intel IGP HDD: 2x WD 250GB 7200RPM 16MB cache SATA2 (RAID 0)/1x Maxtor 40GB, 2x WD 250GB SATA (RAID 1) PSU: Corsair TX650W/Jeantech 400W Case: Coolermaster HAF/Jeantech Aqua LCD: Phillips 37" FullHD LCD/22" Hanns'G LCD

11-05-09, 09:03 PM	#4
EarthDog Intel CPU/Mobo Content Editor Benching Team Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: USA	SataIII isnt going to make a difference in single drive SSD performance so dont make that part of the decision making process. Looks like Evil has you covered. __________________ Overclockers's David Hasselhoff - Germany loves him! Gigabyte EP45 UD3P / Q9650 (1.22v VID) @ 4.05Ghz 1.28v, 4.7Ghz+ benchable (H2O) 60GB OCZ Summit, RaptorX, WDCBlack 640GB, 410GB NAS (external), 250GB Seagate Freeagent GTX260 216 55nm @ 810/1656/1215 (max benchable) (H2O, 1.12v) 4GB OCZ Platinum @ 5-4-4-12 925Mhz PL9 / X-Fi Extreme Gamer Acer 23" 1920x1080 / Corsair 750TX / Corsair Obsidian 800D MCP655 / MCR320 / Fusion v1 / MCW60 / MicroRes

11-05-09, 09:23 PM	#8
jamesman32 Aircooling & AMD CPU/Mobo Content Editor Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Suffield, Connecticut	Thanks for the responses thus far. As it looks, I'm going to be buying a Thuban and an AM3 890FX board in June, if they stay on track for release around April, so I'll have the SATA III support ready to go. I've heard some things about Rectangular HDDs though, and how SSDs will be then pushed to laptops only, and RHDDs will replace desktop HDDs. Is that correct? __________________ No, it's not a hardware problem. Your computer just doesn't like you.

11-05-09, 09:26 PM	#9
jmdixon85 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Cumbria (UK)	^^Mmmm, I realy dont think so. EDIT: 2nd Mmmmm??? RHDD's? Dont think I've even heard of them. __________________ Main System/File Server CPU: Q9650 @ stock due to crap mobo (Cooled by AC Freezer Xtreme)/C2D E6550 @ 2.33Ghz (OCZ Vanquisher - Passive) Mainboard: Asus P5N-D (nForce 750i)/Asus P5GX-MX1333 RAM: 2x 2GB OCZ Reaper HPC DDR2 1066mhz/4GB DDR2 667 Mhz Video: nVidia GTX 260 core 216 @ 725/1215/Intel IGP HDD: 2x WD 250GB 7200RPM 16MB cache SATA2 (RAID 0)/1x Maxtor 40GB, 2x WD 250GB SATA (RAID 1) PSU: Corsair TX650W/Jeantech 400W Case: Coolermaster HAF/Jeantech Aqua LCD: Phillips 37" FullHD LCD/22" Hanns'G LCD

11-05-09, 09:30 PM	#10
Evilsizer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Austin,Texas	k im gonna ask, wth is RHDD? first i have heard of it... though if im right RHDD=Removable Hard Disk Drive, if that is the case LOL... ocz has planned for a 3.5in ssd, from some new articles i posted here in the past. samsung stated on current nm process for NAND flash in a 3.5in FF they could get up to 1TB of storage... __________________ i7 920@3.6ghz \| Asus RE-II-Gene \| OCZ3P1333LV3GK \| (2)4850CF \| C650TX \| OCZ AGILITY 60gig(x2 in raid-0) 2 i7 860's(1 WIP!), 1 i5 750 for rosetta! 2x9600GO's for FAH ATM! Looking for some info on the Abit IP35-Pro? Want a mATX P55 board with overclocking features? currently on hold "I Love To Camp!" "Comensing Shock Therapy!" HeatWare

11-05-09, 09:59 PM	#11
jamesman32 Aircooling & AMD CPU/Mobo Content Editor Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Suffield, Connecticut	Rather than typing out Rectangular HDDs a second time, I abbreviated it to RHDDs. Probably not the "official" acronym just yet, but oh well. Anyone heard anything about them? __________________ No, it's not a hardware problem. Your computer just doesn't like you.

11-05-09, 10:02 PM	#12
EarthDog Intel CPU/Mobo Content Editor Benching Team Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: USA	Perpendicular?? __________________ Overclockers's David Hasselhoff - Germany loves him! Gigabyte EP45 UD3P / Q9650 (1.22v VID) @ 4.05Ghz 1.28v, 4.7Ghz+ benchable (H2O) 60GB OCZ Summit, RaptorX, WDCBlack 640GB, 410GB NAS (external), 250GB Seagate Freeagent GTX260 216 55nm @ 810/1656/1215 (max benchable) (H2O, 1.12v) 4GB OCZ Platinum @ 5-4-4-12 925Mhz PL9 / X-Fi Extreme Gamer Acer 23" 1920x1080 / Corsair 750TX / Corsair Obsidian 800D MCP655 / MCR320 / Fusion v1 / MCW60 / MicroRes

11-05-09, 10:03 PM	#13
jmdixon85 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Cumbria (UK)	Nope, not me. 3.5" HDD's are already retangular arn't they, lol. Really have no idea of what you are referring to? __________________ Main System/File Server CPU: Q9650 @ stock due to crap mobo (Cooled by AC Freezer Xtreme)/C2D E6550 @ 2.33Ghz (OCZ Vanquisher - Passive) Mainboard: Asus P5N-D (nForce 750i)/Asus P5GX-MX1333 RAM: 2x 2GB OCZ Reaper HPC DDR2 1066mhz/4GB DDR2 667 Mhz Video: nVidia GTX 260 core 216 @ 725/1215/Intel IGP HDD: 2x WD 250GB 7200RPM 16MB cache SATA2 (RAID 0)/1x Maxtor 40GB, 2x WD 250GB SATA (RAID 1) PSU: Corsair TX650W/Jeantech 400W Case: Coolermaster HAF/Jeantech Aqua LCD: Phillips 37" FullHD LCD/22" Hanns'G LCD

11-05-09, 10:06 PM	#14
Evilsizer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Austin,Texas	james is this what your talking about? http://www.hdd.ji2.com/blog/2009/06/...itional-style/ __________________ i7 920@3.6ghz \| Asus RE-II-Gene \| OCZ3P1333LV3GK \| (2)4850CF \| C650TX \| OCZ AGILITY 60gig(x2 in raid-0) 2 i7 860's(1 WIP!), 1 i5 750 for rosetta! 2x9600GO's for FAH ATM! Looking for some info on the Abit IP35-Pro? Want a mATX P55 board with overclocking features? currently on hold "I Love To Camp!" "Comensing Shock Therapy!" HeatWare

11-05-09, 10:16 PM	#15
jamesman32 Aircooling & AMD CPU/Mobo Content Editor Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Suffield, Connecticut	Yeah, I think so. My friend from OCN told me they'd be coming along for early 2011, but seeing as how nobody has heard of them, I guess they probably aren't. __________________ No, it's not a hardware problem. Your computer just doesn't like you.

11-05-09, 10:19 PM	#16
Evilsizer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Austin,Texas	well IMO fusion IO has a better chance of that then the RHDD.. X25m vs Fusion IO __________________ i7 920@3.6ghz \| Asus RE-II-Gene \| OCZ3P1333LV3GK \| (2)4850CF \| C650TX \| OCZ AGILITY 60gig(x2 in raid-0) 2 i7 860's(1 WIP!), 1 i5 750 for rosetta! 2x9600GO's for FAH ATM! Looking for some info on the Abit IP35-Pro? Want a mATX P55 board with overclocking features? currently on hold "I Love To Camp!" "Comensing Shock Therapy!" HeatWare

11-05-09, 10:22 PM	#17
jmdixon85 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Cumbria (UK)	I don't see that happening. No heads and no moving parts, Thats where my money is at. __________________ Main System/File Server CPU: Q9650 @ stock due to crap mobo (Cooled by AC Freezer Xtreme)/C2D E6550 @ 2.33Ghz (OCZ Vanquisher - Passive) Mainboard: Asus P5N-D (nForce 750i)/Asus P5GX-MX1333 RAM: 2x 2GB OCZ Reaper HPC DDR2 1066mhz/4GB DDR2 667 Mhz Video: nVidia GTX 260 core 216 @ 725/1215/Intel IGP HDD: 2x WD 250GB 7200RPM 16MB cache SATA2 (RAID 0)/1x Maxtor 40GB, 2x WD 250GB SATA (RAID 1) PSU: Corsair TX650W/Jeantech 400W Case: Coolermaster HAF/Jeantech Aqua LCD: Phillips 37" FullHD LCD/22" Hanns'G LCD

11-06-09, 09:01 AM	#19
I.M.O.G. Adnimistrator Overclockers.com Editor Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio	No one mentioned the 64GB drive from Kingston that's going to hit around the $100 price point. If you don't have money that may be a good option! I heard about it in this subform, you may want to do a query for "kingston SSD" and it should be one of the most recent results. __________________ Help improve overclockers.com! Get involved!* ********************The OC Forums Way ******************We are a team. ******************We are a community. ******************We are a fellowship ******************made strong by mutual respect ******************and shared dedication ******************to the task of enriching ******************all who come here. ********************The OC Forums Thank You Thread http://imog.us ThinkpadT400\|C2DT9400@2.53Ghz\|2GB\|160GB

11-07-09, 03:29 AM	#21
HDCHOPPER Team 32 Folding Member Join Date: Mar 2008	jamesman32 find your self the middle of the road type without a jmicron controller and you should be happy (cheap gets you stuttering & mad ) and SSD will never be laptop only many are being set to the wild in normal form fator now inluding pcie types __________________ Working on my I7 Asus P6T SE build feel free to donate lol

11-07-09, 07:26 PM	#23
cyberfish Member Join Date: May 2008	It's all speculation at the moment. It will at least take another year to reach the market at the ultra-high-end, and another 2 years for the prices to go down to a reasonable level. And by that time something better will be coming out... and you should wait another 3 years for it. For me, for things I want, I just wait until the price dropping rate drops to ~20%/year (like the current SSDs). Ultra-high end stuff drop in price WAY faster than that. More like 50%/year. You have to draw the line somewhere, depending on your budget, how bad you want it, etc, or you will be waiting indefinitely, since prices will always be dropping, and new things will always be coming out.

11-08-09, 10:10 PM	#27
Evilsizer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Austin,Texas	you know after thinking about it, read speeds might be higher if they went a dual sata route. say a single drive using two sata ports, there is your 600MB/s. though that is prolly harder to do then just using the new standard. would be interesting though, something like SAS, but called DSATA. __________________ i7 920@3.6ghz \| Asus RE-II-Gene \| OCZ3P1333LV3GK \| (2)4850CF \| C650TX \| OCZ AGILITY 60gig(x2 in raid-0) 2 i7 860's(1 WIP!), 1 i5 750 for rosetta! 2x9600GO's for FAH ATM! Looking for some info on the Abit IP35-Pro? Want a mATX P55 board with overclocking features? currently on hold "I Love To Camp!" "Comensing Shock Therapy!" HeatWare