HDMI vs. VGA

[Nhut Pham]

So I got quite a lovely Christmas gift from a friend who owed me quite a bit for all I've done for them through the years. The gift was a 32" Samsung LCD tv, capable of 1080p.

The LCD has a VGA hookup, and HDMI inputs, and my 4850 is capable of outputting either one. What's strange to me is that when I use the VGA cable, the text is noticeably clearer than using the HDMI hookup. I tried fiddling with the settings a bit, but could not figure out why this was the case. Definitely there was a size difference in windows and images moving to the VGA cable, most boxes were bigger, for example widgets on the sidebar would be clearer and of increased size.

I was under the impression that HDMI/DVI offered better color, and I figured stuff would be more true to size without the need for auto adjustment. Maybe when you run digital hookups the TV no longer uses comb filters?

I guess I should just run the VGA cable, it just bothers me that it's better and I don't know the reason. I keep thinking I'm missing some kind of setting. There are also many more settings in the tv display menus when using HDMI, these settings are not available when hooked up through VGA.

[gearhead1972]

Did you enable hdtv support in the catalyst control center?

[Nhut Pham]

In the hdtv support menu I checked the 1080p ntsc one, and I tried the "apply format" on the 1080p in the bottom check box.

I can't really tell if it does anything different, it was set to the same stuff before.

It's so weird, HDMI looks much worse, I'm looking at your sig and it looks like the blue glows and kind of meshes the text together, almost like the blue is bleeding. I switch to VGA and it's bigger text, clearer, and you can see the grayish black in the middle of the o's and e's, where this would be blurry blue on hdmi.

[AtomicMonkey]

Might be a dumb question, but what does it mean "1080p capable"? My PJ is capable to display 1080p signal but it's native is still only 720. Regardless, make sure that the native res matches the V/C output.

[Moto7451]

^ Indeed, especially if on VGA the text got larger. It seems to me that would mean you're running a lower, or at least not extrapolated, resolution.

[Nhut Pham]

http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=televisions&type=televisions&subtype=lcdtv&model_cd=LN32A550P3FXZA

That is the display I'm using. I would say the difference is what I would notice on previous monitors when running different refresh rates - on other panels I would notice a change in font size and clarity when running different refresh rates, with all other settings the same (at least as far as I could tell).

Right now when I open up the ATI CCC I see all the same settings when using either connection, I just swap the plugs out and I notice the immediate difference. The LCD does have many options under HDMI that I tried messing around with but couldn't duplicate the VGA quality. I also tried increasing the font size in display settings, but small text still is more blurred on HDMI.

Moto, does that mean I could be running a different resolution even though the settings say I'm running 1080p? Would that be scaling on the monitor's part or the video card's?

I guess the last question would be, does the HDMI cable matter? I know there's standards for 1.3 and such, I'm using the cheapest cable I could find at Fry's as I'm only using a cable 6 feet long. It's a philips made HDMI cable that says it supports up to 1080p. I was under the impression that at this length the cable would not be an issue.

[cmichaelt]

i had the same dilemma but with a 720p tv. vga looked nicer vs hdmi. the problem is that it's a tv and is not guaranteed to work like a monitor under certain circumstances. some brands handle this better while others do not. i am now running mine on vga and have an extra hdmi cable lying around. at some point i'll prollie just sell the tv and get a matching monitor for a better dual setup, maybe even triple if christmas is extra nice.

[KosAMD]

I had a similar problem with DVI vs. VGA on my 37" westi. Simple driver update for my comp vid card fixed all that though..

[Burdman27911]

Just for clarification, does windows show the output resolution as 1920x1080 for both the hdmi and vga? I am only asking because you mentioned that the size of the windows changed (and perceived clarity of text). The LCD says it is 1920x1080, but it really does sound like the hdmi is being scaled somehow (and VGA is at a lower resolution) from the way you described it.

What settings on the LCD are you using for the hdmi input? Make sure you have something like "just scan" or "1:1" enabled. I'll need to look at my samsung lcd to see what they call it in there.

Finally, as Kos mentioned, you should update your drivers if they haven't been already.

[gigabit]

I cant get my 32" HD TV to work right on my PC.For some reason i cant use the DVI adapter on my DVI connector.It makes my Monitor and TV act strange But if i use the VGA cable alone my TV works and looks great.But i have to use a laptop to do this or use my MSI 8400GS or the Old gateway desktop i have stashed away just in case i need a back up PC

[Nhut Pham]

Just for clarification, does windows show the output resolution as 1920x1080 for both the hdmi and vga? I am only asking because you mentioned that the size of the windows changed (and perceived clarity of text). The LCD says it is 1920x1080, but it really does sound like the hdmi is being scaled somehow (and VGA is at a lower resolution) from the way you described it.

What settings on the LCD are you using for the hdmi input? Make sure you have something like "just scan" or "1:1" enabled. I'll need to look at my samsung lcd to see what they call it in there.

Finally, as Kos mentioned, you should update your drivers if they haven't been already.

Yes, whichever connector I choose I see 1920 x 1080 @ 60hz on the screen.

The settings on the LCD for HDMI that I see I can change are things like black adjust, color space, flesh tone, edge enhancement, digital NR, DNIe, HDMI Black level, film mode, blue only mode, and all standard sharpness/contrast etc settings.

I didn't see anything like 1:1 or just scan on there.

I'm on the ATI 8.12 drivers, I didn't see any drivers for the display on the Samsung website, in ATI CCC I see the display listed as Samsung [Single].

Yeah, I don't know what's up with the font size change between the inputs, all I can say is I've noticed the same thing when dealing with refresh rates on other monitors, sometimes everything will be set the same except when you change the refresh rate the font size and clarity will change. I never knew why this was.

[Satsumomo]

I used a 32" A550 monitor on my computer once, and I had to go into the TV menu, I don't recall where, to set it up to not stretch or box the image. It was some sort of setting like that.

It then looked ultra clear, and I was using the HDMI output of my videocard.

[Nhut Pham]

Okay, I found out where the Just Scan setting is, it does help quite a bit although now the display doesn't take up the whole panel, even if I set the GPU scaling in ATI CCC.

*EDIT* I found that changing the "scaling options" in CCC fixed this, there is underscan be default for some reason.

I also found a thread on [H] forums that says you gotta turn sharpness all the way down from 50 to between 0 and 5. It's starting to look much better, I'm gonna try to fool around with the settings a little more. It's still a little bit fuzzier than VGA, but hopefully I'll fix it all soon.

*EDIT* After fixing the scaling and using new color settings, everything looks friggin awesome.

[Nhut Pham]

Oh, this is the thread if anyone is interested:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1309983

There's also a huge calibration thread on avsforum here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1020612

[shadin]

I've used my PC on several HDTVs that had VGA connections for computers, and for some reason text has always looked better via VGA than HDMI, even after tweaking. I've yet to see any visual difference between the two on desktop and games, so I just use VGA. Others experience may vary on other displays, but I've always found the superiority of HDMI on HDTVs via PC to be a placebo effect.

[Nhut Pham]

Well, I have to say that after tweaking everything, the HDMI does look better - but that's also because using HDMI has way more settings on this TV and I have also now spent the time to calibrate the colors on the display. I have to say that the HDMI does look extremely clear now.

Now I'm having different issues playing pc games. Many games run fine and different resolutions, I tried to play crysis and the scaling is all messed up. It often starts in 800x600 for no reason, the image is off center and not fullscreen when it should be, and the mouse cursor and what it clicks don't line up. Even after resetting to a proper resolution it looks fine but the mouse doesn't line up. When I run counter-strike at 1920x1080, the screen goes bigger than the display and I can't click any of the buttons. It's so weird, source games run just fine. Now I gotta figure all this out...VGA would be easier but now I'm determined to make HDMI work.

[Blackstar]

I played around with my Samsung HDTV the same way you are now trying to get the HDMI working with my computer but in the end, no matter how much tweaking I did, it ment I was down one HDMI port. Plus the settings sometimes got changed and had to be reset. I personally could not see that much, if any difference. And to my eyes, the VGA was better with the right gamma and white points set correctly than anything after I adjusted with the HDMI (color space, sharpness, contrast, brightness, etc) just to get it looking "ok".

It's not like I'm going to use that VGA on the back for anything else and everything I've had to show using VGA has been flawless. ;) But I am curious how far you get with yours.


- Blackstar

[Nhut Pham]

I haven't had problems with the settings getting reset - this TV saves all settings for every source under every NAME you give it, and for each picture setting - dynamic/standard/movie.

If I name my HDMI port to "PC", it actually takes away some of the options and defaults the settings a certain way (stupid, I know). If I change the name back to the blanks, it returns to my previous settings. I can also save the settings under dynamic how I please, and if I return to the movie setting my previous setup will be there.

I'm starting to seriously get irked with the scaling thing though. I have no idea why it does what it does and I know I wouldn't have to deal with it if I just used the VGA cable.

[Blackstar]

I haven't had problems with the settings getting reset - this TV saves all settings for every source under every NAME you give it, and for each picture setting - dynamic/standard/movie.

If I name my HDMI port to "PC", it actually takes away some of the options and defaults the settings a certain way (stupid, I know). If I change the name back to the blanks, it returns to my previous settings. I can also save the settings under dynamic how I please, and if I return to the movie setting my previous setup will be there.

I'm starting to seriously get irked with the scaling thing though. I have no idea why it does what it does and I know I wouldn't have to deal with it if I just used the VGA cable.


Not yet, but you will. ;) One or two accidental 'resets' and you'll get frustrated re-inputing all those settings again.

The scaling setting will be in the manual. They will list what it is and how to use it.


- Blackstar

[zex350z]

I may try switching to VGA then, the text looks so grainy on a 37" Phillips 720 LCD.

[DohDoh]

After all this, why not just stick with the VGA? Is there a reason you want it to go through the HDMI connector so badly? Is it because you have a bluray player?

[Blackstar]

After all this, why not just stick with the VGA? Is there a reason you want it to go through the HDMI connector so badly? Is it because you have a bluray player?

I'm not sure why people have a desire to not use the plug designed for the display for computer usage. *shrug. My guess would be a quality perception of digital vs analog video.

I've always used VGA on my Samsung HDTV and it has been perfect for text and video rendering. Much more so than the DVI-HDMI option I have tried which was limited to 1280x720 vs the full panel's rez of 1360x768.

But I am curious to see how his experimentations work out to compare.


- Blackstar

[Nhut Pham]

Using the HDMI input on this display has many more options in the settings, whether they are useful or not is debatable. Also, you never have to use the "auto adjust" for the screen, which you will have to do from time to time with full screen applications using VGA.

What I'm not quite sure about, is that with HDMI you can achieve 1:1 pixel mapping as well. This would seem to provide more clarity to the picture.

Currently I'm on HDMI and that picture is excellent, I would say it looks better than when I had it on VGA but I did mess around with color settings as well. There were definitely some settings I had not corrected when I first posted this topic, and they have made all the difference. I still haven't figured out the issue with certain games not playing along nicely in full screen, although most games work fine. I'm still working on that.

So I guess I'm all bent out of shape to use HDMI just because I think it is "supposed" to be better, as it is newer and there are more options made for it. My other LCD displays I have found the picture to often be better with DVI instead of VGA, so maybe my bias is from those experiences.

The thing is, this display is designed to use BOTH vga or hdmi to hook up a pc. The manual suggests using a DVI-HDMI adapter and using a certain HDMI port for your PC, and has inputs for sound from your PC as well. So both VGA and HDMI are recommended for PC use on this particular model.

[Mr.Guvernment]

for me HDMI was far FAR miore vibrant and clear then using the VGA port on my sony bravia LVD tv.

[Blackstar]

Using the HDMI input on this display has many more options in the settings, whether they are useful or not is debatable. Also, you never have to use the "auto adjust" for the screen, which you will have to do from time to time with full screen applications using VGA.

What I'm not quite sure about, is that with HDMI you can achieve 1:1 pixel mapping as well. This would seem to provide more clarity to the picture.

Currently I'm on HDMI and that picture is excellent, I would say it looks better than when I had it on VGA but I did mess around with color settings as well. There were definitely some settings I had not corrected when I first posted this topic, and they have made all the difference. I still haven't figured out the issue with certain games not playing along nicely in full screen, although most games work fine. I'm still working on that.

So I guess I'm all bent out of shape to use HDMI just because I think it is "supposed" to be better, as it is newer and there are more options made for it. My other LCD displays I have found the picture to often be better with DVI instead of VGA, so maybe my bias is from those experiences.

The thing is, this display is designed to use BOTH vga or hdmi to hook up a pc. The manual suggests using a DVI-HDMI adapter and using a certain HDMI port for your PC, and has inputs for sound from your PC as well. So both VGA and HDMI are recommended for PC use on this particular model.


It's interesting about the screen auto adjust because on my Samsung I only had to press it once to fix the location and that was it. Currently I'm using the max res of the panel that is 1:1 on VGA. (1360x768)

I'd be curious about what calibration settings you are using now.

My HDMI experience was far worse no matter what HDMI input or settings I used and could never get any rez higher than 1280x720 which put a distinct black bar all around, or I had to use a lower rez completely, which was unacceptable to me.

I found through experimentation that even though the preset options were not adjustable while using VGA, if they were changed in any of the other input options, say TV or Component for example, then those settings would still retain their values when using VGA.

In any case these limitations may simple be indicative of the particular model HDTV I have. I have heard of people using an application like "Swtich-Rez" to achieve good HDMI results, but hacking refresh rates and such seems too risky and not worth damaging the screen.

With your games have you set all the resolutions and refresh rates to the native of your new screen?


- Blackstar

[shadin]

Using the HDMI input on this display has many more options in the settings, whether they are useful or not is debatable. Also, you never have to use the "auto adjust" for the screen, which you will have to do from time to time with full screen applications using VGA.

What I'm not quite sure about, is that with HDMI you can achieve 1:1 pixel mapping as well. This would seem to provide more clarity to the picture.

Currently I'm on HDMI and that picture is excellent, I would say it looks better than when I had it on VGA but I did mess around with color settings as well. There were definitely some settings I had not corrected when I first posted this topic, and they have made all the difference. I still haven't figured out the issue with certain games not playing along nicely in full screen, although most games work fine. I'm still working on that.

So I guess I'm all bent out of shape to use HDMI just because I think it is "supposed" to be better, as it is newer and there are more options made for it. My other LCD displays I have found the picture to often be better with DVI instead of VGA, so maybe my bias is from those experiences.

The thing is, this display is designed to use BOTH vga or hdmi to hook up a pc. The manual suggests using a DVI-HDMI adapter and using a certain HDMI port for your PC, and has inputs for sound from your PC as well. So both VGA and HDMI are recommended for PC use on this particular model.


The only thing about this though, is that all the options for picture and color and whatnot that are available under HDMI vs VGA are in the video card driver settings. I run my HDTV in Game Mode (turns off basically all the TV settings/filters/etc) and adjust the picture through the ATI drivers, which give me even more settings to play with than the TV would.

I think HDMI has fewer options because it assumes PCs connected through VGA don't need options from the television to begin with.

Every TV is different, though, so I don't doubt that some models have crap VGA, or crap HDMI, and one looks better than the other. All things of like quality and implementation, however, and I don't think there should be an actual visual difference (except maybe that whole text/scaling thing that seems annoyingly consistent with HDMI).