Sony Bravia 46" LCD crappy sd image!

[dylskee]

I just bought my first HD LCD tv and i'm a little concearned about the quality of the standard definition channels. I just got my Hd digital cable box from charter and my HD channels are awesome but the standard definition channels are pretty ****ty and grainy! I wasn't expecting the sd channels to be great but man, my crt tv looked a lot better and I spent an ass-load of money on this tv!!! I've tried the calibration cd and it only made it worse so I just used my eye to get the image quality the best I can but the sd channels still look like crap! Does anyone have any helpful suggestions so I can watch these channels without going insane? Here's a link to the tv I bought. I'm using all monster cables to connect the components to the tv.
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&productId=11040895&langId=-1&XID=O:kdl-46v2500:dg_ggldf

[Mr. Roboto]

Honestly, there's not much you can do. It's one of the things you have to put up with on high res tv's. Your old crt tv looked better because the sd channel was being displayed at the native resolution of the tv (or near it) instead of being upscaled several times on the lcd.

[dylskee]

Honestly, there's not much you can do. It's one of the things you have to put up with on high res tv's. Your old crt tv looked better because the sd channel was being displayed at the native resolution of the tv (or near it) instead of being upscaled several times on the lcd.
Yeah, I was afraid of that. It's just a shame to have the tv look amazing on one channel and crap on another! Thanks for the reply.

[Evil_Eye]

If you can live with the bars, you can always try setting your TV to 4:3 mode for the SD channels.

Other than that, yeah, you're pretty much stuck with the TV's upscaling.

[BossBorot]

also the bigger the tv the crappier sd will look. This componds with your lcds non native problems, and cropping/aspect ratio issues depending on the display mode, to make it look like pure ***

[Raypundo]

See if you box has a resolution setting for SD. My Motorola has the option to output SD in 480i or 480p, looks alot better on 480p mode.

But in general, yes it will look bad.

Solution: Don't watch SD! :p

[Blackstar]

Are you using the componant inputs or the HDMI?

Another problem is that the compression used by the stations is designed to take the advantages the CRT technology uses. Since you now have a TV that does not use them, you are now seeing more sharp 'blockiness' from the data compression that was transparent on the CRT tv's.

I have a Samsung LCD HDTV myself and have noticed the same thing. ;)

Setting the cable box to override the 480p SD channels is a start but here's a neat trick... the cable box should also output a signal through the single RCA plug (yellow), plug that into one of the inputs on the HDTV.

Use that input to watch the SD channels and use one of the custom picture settings to adjust it to your liking. Since the RCA input is expecting an analog signal, it translates to a better source for the TV to use and as a result looks better IMHO.

Another problem with the HDMI inputs and digital HD signals with LCD panels is that the sharpness are artificial and really only for analog signal adjustment. I set my sharpness down to zero on the HD channels and only very low for the SD channels.

- Blackstar

[aaronjb]

See if you box has a resolution setting for SD. My Motorola has the option to output SD in 480i or 480p, looks alot better on 480p mode.

But in general, yes it will look bad.

Solution: Don't watch SD! :p

I concur!

FYI, I have a Westinghouse 37w3, and I set my box to output SD channels at 480i at 4:3. 480p looks washed out after being scaled by the Westy, but 480i does not. Your results will probably vary, but try playing with the service menu of your STB. What do you have for a box?

[RollingThunder]

I concur!

FYI, I have a Westinghouse 37w3, and I set my box to output SD channels at 480i at 4:3. 480p looks washed out after being scaled by the Westy, but 480i does not. Your results will probably vary, but try playing with the service menu of your STB. What do you have for a box?

Aaron,

When I was looking to purchase an HDTV, I was warned of the same possibility. I finally settled on a Sony 40V2500 and to my surprise, the standard definition channels are excellent as well as standard definition DVDs, all which are much, much better than on the set it replaced. The Sony replaced a GE 25" CRT.

Do you think it's a matter of perception, or by the signal the cable provider sends or what? I am not using a cable box, I just wanted the stations that broadcast in HD by default for now (Fox, CBS, etc.)

[sJetski]

Anyone willing to spend around $600-$800 or anyone just interested in the topic can look up the Algolith Flea or Algolith Mosquito: http://www.algolith.com/index.php?id=home_theater&L=0

They are supposedly the most affordable, but yet effective, ways to "clean up" a crappy standard-definition signal. My research has concluded that you'd have to spend many hundreds more for a product with a similar degree of effectiveness, and there's nothing cheaper that's compareable. From what i understand it is probably not proper to call the Mosquito or Flea "scalers" since their focus is different. None of the cheaper scalers (<$600) can do the same job since they are built with $10-$15 scaling chips and aren't truly focused on cleaning up standard-definition, but mostly just scale them in different ways.

And here's a great place to begin researching video processors: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=37

I've been researching the topic for my father who's just about ready to downgrade his hdtv for another sony CRT television. He just couldn't stand the crappy picture he had on his favorite channels. Since i was already interested in electronics i promised that i'd research potential solutions. Turns out he'll probably just end up switching services to Verizon Fios (http://www22.verizon.com/content/ConsumerFios/) which promises more high-def channels and a cleaner picture overall. We'll see i guess.

[dylskee]

Are you using the componant inputs or the HDMI?

Setting the cable box to override the 480p SD channels is a start but here's a neat trick... the cable box should also output a signal through the single RCA plug (yellow), plug that into one of the inputs on the HDTV.

Use that input to watch the SD channels and use one of the custom picture settings to adjust it to your liking. Since the RCA input is expecting an analog signal, it translates to a better source for the TV to use and as a result looks better IMHO.
I'm using component from the cable box, these boxes don't use HDMI for HD. I already tried that trick you recommended but for some reason I can't save an individual profile of the settings to a specific video input. When I make changes in the custom settings it's for all video inputs. I have to say the manual for this tv sucks, I got a bigger and more descriptive manual with my tooth brush!!

[Vengance_01]

yup single Def TV Blows. No matter what you do with the signal, its just going to look bad. Also the bigger TV's show more of the imperfections than lets say a 27 or 32inch HDTV. I would say in the next few years we should alot of channels switching over to some forum of HD. ATM, ESPN's HD looks fantastic and I wish every channel looked like this.

[Blackstar]

I'm using component from the cable box, these boxes don't use HDMI for HD. I already tried that trick you recommended but for some reason I can't save an individual profile of the settings to a specific video input. When I make changes in the custom settings it's for all video inputs. I have to say the manual for this tv sucks, I got a bigger and more descriptive manual with my tooth brush!!


Lol. Awe man, I'm sorry to hear that. :( But I feel your frustration. The other thing is the native rez being output by the box. You want it set to 1080i. I don't know of any HD cable boxes or stations doing 1080p. The tech who set me up with the Verizon FIOS set the box to 720p, but I found the guide looks much better set to 1080i on my TV. A combination of the output scaling being done by the tv and not the box and the graphic's resolution.

I also found that the profiles I set also change on occasion when I switch to use my PC on the HDTV and then back to the HDMI source. Pain in the butt, but hey, I can live with it. I just memorize the settings I like. ;)

It will be some years before the whole HD upgrade thing gets sorted out not only for TV, but for the analog/digital broadcasts, LCD/plasma/SED/OLED tv replacing CRTs and then the next gen-dvd media as well.

HDTV can be fun! Right? :santa:

- Blackstar

[PhysX]

SD channles looks so much better on your crt tv because the crt dosent have 1080p resolution. i know what it llooks like because i see it on tvs all day long at work, its not that bad, just sit back and watch it haha.

seriously, sd = 640x480, strech that to fit 1920x1080 and it will look like garbage, its making 4:3 fit to 16:9. i took the time to show you the difference in the links. i took a photo that was shot at 640x480 and made it into 1920x1080, giving you the full effect. nothing was altered other than the image size.
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http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5725/640samplenu8.jpg <-----original

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6871/1080samplecl5.jpg <-----1080

[PhysX]

btw no stations broadcast in 1080p, they are all 1080i

[Audioaficionado]

I saw that Sony 40V2500 and it was very nice with standard DVDs. However @ ~$1600 it's just too rich for my budget.

Anyone have or seen this 42" Sceptre X42GV-Naga LCD/HDTV that sells for ~$1000?
http://www.sceptre.com/Products/LCD/Specifications/spec_X42GV-Naga.htm

[JRW]

SD channles looks so much better on your crt tv because the crt dosent have 1080p resolution. i know what it llooks like because i see it on tvs all day long at work, its not that bad, just sit back and watch it haha.

seriously, sd = 640x480, strech that to fit 1920x1080 and it will look like garbage, its making 4:3 fit to 16:9. i took the time to show you the difference in the links. i took a photo that was shot at 640x480 and made it into 1920x1080, giving you the full effect. nothing was altered other than the image size.
\


http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5725/640samplenu8.jpg <-----original

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6871/1080samplecl5.jpg <-----1080

Actually CRTs handle 480i / 480P much better because they're not fixed pixel displays like LCDs etc. they dont have to 'scale' away from any native resolutions, so 480p is displayed as 480p untouched, a good example would be with PC monitors , if you run an LCD out of its native resolution the image quality is noticeably degraded yet a CRT can run a wide variety of resolutions without losing quality due to it not having to scale.

Another example: I hooked up Wii to my NEC 20WMGX2 LCD via Component cables and was shocked how bad it looked (480P) ..this is only a 20.1" screen so size wasnt the issue, In comparison Wii looks far better on my 34" Sony XBR960 CRT HDTV using the same Component cables.

LCD 480i / 480p quality also depends on the scaler chip being used, some are better than others (although even the better scalers cant compete with a crt's 'untouched' approach) cnet.com usually comments on SD quality in there HDTV reviews.