Looking for a good LCD to replace my CRT and TV.

[The Unforgiven]

I'm poking my nose around for the first time in ages, and it feels good to be back. But anywho, I love my Samsung 990DF 19" CRT, the thing is so freaking big that I have no room on my desk, and I'd much rather have a widescreen. As for the TV, it's just an 6 year old TruFlat SDTV RCA, which has been a really good TV, and has good video quality for having nothing beyond S-video. I just want an LCD that is as good as(or better than) my CRT, and that can take a component input. I've been really debating on the NEC Multisync 20WGMX2, because it meets all of my requirements, but I've read bad things about it's glossy screen. I personally cannot stand the matte finish on the Dell 2007WFP or the Samsung 204BW, though both monitors seem to be good for their money. After using a CRT for 15+ years, I'm used to a little glare, and my room is setup where I have very minimal glare even with my CRT. And for TV replacement, I just want something that my 480p Wii would look good on.

So what do you guys with experience in this subject think. I'd rather keep it under $500 if at all possible. Just a good all monitor that can do this.

Thanks in advance,

~Dave

[Hazaro]

480p isn't going to look much better.

I can't recomend anything since it's been a while when I was TV hunting, but there are a LOT of 32" LCD's out there for $500. Of course shipping and taxes hurt.

[BossBorot]

so are you looking for a tv and an lcd monitor or just an lcd monitor that you can connect a console to? Also what resolution are you ok with?

[The Unforgiven]

Well, I've got a Viewsonic N5 video processor which I'm attempting to use with with my Wii and Samsung monitor, and it doesn't look too bad. Though from a distance it looks better. Text and such looks great, it's just that the Wii's AA support isn't that great.

[The Unforgiven]

so are you looking for a tv and an lcd monitor or just an lcd monitor that you can connect a console to? Also what resolution are you ok with?

The latter, just an all-in-one widescreen replacement for the CRT and TV. Preferably 1680x1050 or higher. For the TV part 480p is fine, though 720p would be nice.

[BossBorot]

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=515285

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2006/11/07/Benq_FP241W/1

[The Unforgiven]

That BenQ FP241W looks like a pretty nice monitor. Is it a TN panel? $669 new at Newegg, which is rather respectable, though a little more than I can spare. I'm still looking at the NEC 20WMGX2 , especially since it's $200 cheaper AR. But that's not a bad price for a 24 inch, and it has HDMI input, which is very nice, and that's the cheapest I think you can buy 1080p. Now I'm tettering between the BenQ and the NEC now.

How's the coating on the screen? Most LCD's make me want to clean them, because the matte coating makes me think they are dirty. I'm leaving my CRT dirty to see if I can actually live with that coating, because that's what the matte coating looks exactly like to me.

[BossBorot]

its not a tn, you wont find tn panels bigger then 22" in computer monitors as most people willing to spend that much dont want tn; it uses a P-MVA and if you are willing to buy it refurb it cost $430 if you follow the first link.

I think its mat as not very many screen have gloss and those who do tend to carry a premium as is the case with that nec.

[JRW]

Well dont expect very good 480P quality from an LCD, They perform much better at there native resolution, When I compared Wii on my NEC 20WMGX2 via Component input vs. my Sony 34" XBR960 CRT HDTV via Component the differance was night and day, The CRT looked far superior and its even a much larger screen (34" vs. 20.1") It looked way to pixelated on the LCD mostly due to scaling, a CRT is able to display 480p without altering the pixels.

[The Unforgiven]

its not a tn, you wont find tn panels bigger then 22" in computer monitors as most people willing to spend that much dont want tn; it uses a P-MVA and if you are willing to buy it refurb it cost $430 if you follow the first link.

I think its mat as not very many screen have gloss and those who do tend to carry a premium as is the case with that nec.

That's what I get for posting that late at night, I miss details. I'm a little paranoid about a refurb, what will they let you send it back for? Dead pixels? Severe damage?

Oh and one other thing, is my 6600 GT good enough for everyday usage with this monitor? I'm not going to be doing too much PC gaming, aside from Diablo 2 on occasional, which will run on nearly anything, but just using Linux and running Beryl(a window manager similar to Vista's Aero), which requires 3D acceleration. I can't really afford both a new monitor and video card.

Thanks for the warning, JRW. I guess I may have to keep using the old RCA TV for SD/EDTV gaming for a bit longer. I bet a Xbox 360 using a VGA adapter or a PS3 with HDMI would look good on the BenQ, though budget keeps either of those out of my hands.

[BossBorot]

you can drive the resolution for desktop no problem just not in most games released after your 6600gt came out.

[The Unforgiven]

you can drive the resolution for desktop no problem just not in most games released after your 6600gt came out.

It shouldn't look too terrible in a lower 16:10 resolution, right? And right now the BenQ Shopper site is out of stock on the FP241W. I hope they get some in soon. And how is the return policy? If you get one with a handful of dead pixels, will they take it back?

[MadMan007]

Some sites make too much of a hissy fit over glossy screens. I think you're like me, I dislike anti-glare coatings that give a dirty-crystally kind of look to the picture. I believe they are designed for office apps with flourescent lighting although it doesn't bother lots of people at all.

I've been shopping for an LCD lately too. There are some other options:
Acer 2051W - 20" P-MVA screen and *cheap* at Newegg, $255 shipped no MIR.
+price +P-MVA not TN
+/- glossy screen (plus to me and probably you too)
-Acer is a decent maker but not top tier imo, maybe tier 1.5 :p they tend to compete on price while cutting features. -no extra inputs (maybe the deal killer for you) -built-on non-adjustable stand, no arm mounting possible -power brick! omg I just about puked when I saw it had one ;) these are the kinds of things Acer cuts on, but their displays are otherwise 'ok'
LG 245W/246W (online/retail model) - same base panel as the BenQ, different electronics. Panel isn't everything. Supposedly has a 'semi-gloss' coating, not as anti-glare as Dells etc but not full-out glossy either. Check one out from retail, BB carries it.

NEC 20WMGX2 - you know about this one already. Lots of features just has a price premium but it's the only glossy guaranteed IPS 20" out there.

I hate to recommend other forums but [H] has massive amounts of info, user opinions, gripes and praises about every decent monitor. I've used it as a resource for that purpose quite a bit. To check out a glossy screen I'd suggest buying an HP w2207 at BB and then returning it :p Not all glossy is the same but you'll get a feel for it. They are glossier than CRTs but once turned on it's not as bad as some people make it to be. Pictures showing how bad reflections are with an all black screen is pretty meaningless imo once they are displaying anything, even dark scenes, it's not nearly so bad.

Personally atm I am strongly leaning toward a 20WMGX2. I know it's well-regarded, I like glossy, IPS means I won't have to deal with PVA color-shifting issues. NEC builds solid stuff too I expect it would last forever, and with a built-in TV tuner and remote plus all the inputs it can serve as a TV or whatever well in to the future. sub-$500 puts it squarely between cheaper ones and the $600-700+ 24"ers which works for me. The main thing holding me back is buying an LCD online scares me :(

[The Unforgiven]

I've actually seen the 20WMGX2 in person at Fry's though the idiots didn't even have it connected to anything. The best monitor in the whole damn store, and it wasn't even connected. Though they did have the 90GX2 running, and the colors and the screen looked great to me. The closest thing I've seen to a CRT. I don't require a perfect monitor. I'm using a $189(back in March 2005) Samsung 990DF, which I'm sure is a midrange CRT at best. Though it is about the best non-aperture grille CRT's I've seen. Just something that's a step up from that, would be good for me. The Nec 20" and the BenQ 24" refurb is what I'm teetering over... I like the features of both.

[MadMan007]

Oh man lucky you living near a Fry's! You can buy the NEC retail :cry:

[powersupply]

Oh man lucky you living near a Fry's! You can buy the NEC retail :cry:

This is the same problem I have but amazingly I found out office depot may carry the NEC model so I may go look to see if they do then buy it online if I like it. Though just like you I am scared to buy a lcd monitor online as well because of dead pixels or stuck pixels.

I want to buy a lcd monitor from Newegg but not sure if thats a smart idea with their lcd monitor policy :(

Is there any ulimate online retailer to buy lcd monitors from so you can return them if there are any problems like dead or stuck pixels ?

[The Unforgiven]

Oh man lucky you living near a Fry's! You can buy the NEC retail :cry:

I live about 80 miles from a Fry's, though their prices on most of their stuff is too high. It is a great place to actually see a huge amount of products though. I love they way they display their motherboards. You can actaully see what exactly each model has, without trying to guess from a box picture. I forget what they wanted for the NEC there, I'm wanting to say like $609 or so. Still it annoyed me that they didn't even have it connected to anything... They had a playable gaming rig set up, some nice rig with 7800's in SLI with 2gb of RAM(this was a few months back, right when Vista came out), and it had a cheaper Samusng TN instead of that wicked monitor. Ah well, I kinda wish they'd of had more higher end monitors on display.

[powersupply]

The only thing I really hate about the NEC 20wmgx2 is they don't sell a totally black one.

Why does it have to be black and gray ? With the gray being on the whole front panel ? Doesn't a black boarder bring out the image better on a lcd monitor ?

[The Unforgiven]

I think a black border on an LCD makes me compare the screen's black to true black, and I've never seen an LCD that had true black. YMMV though.

[powersupply]

I think a black border on an LCD makes me compare the screen's black to true black, and I've never seen an LCD that had true black. YMMV though.

Thats a really good point! If it bothers me to much I may just turn the silver border into a black border so it matches with my black case. :clap:

[powersupply]

Well i ordered a NEC 20WXGx2 because all of the 22" lcds even the HP's are TN panels. I hate this. If I want a larger S-IPS LCD I have to go to a 30 inch Dell or HP LCD and those are way to big or expensive. No big deal though. A 20' widescreen is well over enough room for me. Maybe more than I actually need. I could make do with a 19 inch but most of those are TN panels too now. I hate TN panels because I can't get close to CRT quality with them. The only LCDs that come almost perfect to CRT quality I am sure are well over $1000 or even $4000 which just isn't worth it. NEC and Eizo sell some.

[MadMan007]

I'm about 90% decided to get the NEC early next week :o Post impressions when you get yours please!

[powersupply]

I'm about 90% decided to get the NEC early next week :o Post impressions when you get yours please!


Why are you embarrassed?
Will do! This will be my first lcd so I am sure I will love it just hope it has no dead pixels! Though NEC will pay for return shipping and shipping back to you for the first 30 days with a new lcd monitor! I think there needs to be up to 4 dead pixels though but hey thats better than the 6 to 8 pixels that most online retailers have as a rule! I wasn't very clear on it though because I don't know much about lcds.

[MadMan007]

The :o wasn't meant for embarassment just ':o' at buying n LCD online. I'm also leaning toward the all-silver version just because the two-toneness of the black/silver looks bad to me. It's probably not near as bad without the speakers but I would keep them attached for TV input w/o a computer on and while lots of two-tone items with those colors look fine something about the NEC looks hideous like that :p

Ah that's some nice CS from the manufacturer. It goes for anywhere you purchase from obviously? Where'd you get yours...aside from Newegg I'm considering calling Dell and seeing what kind of discount they can give. Last month they had a 15% off electronics and accessories so it could end up pretty low with an easy return/exchange option.

[powersupply]

The :o wasn't meant for embarassment just ':o' at buying n LCD online. I'm also leaning toward the all-silver version just because the two-toneness of the black/silver looks bad to me. It's probably not near as bad without the speakers but I would keep them attached for TV input w/o a computer on and while lots of two-tone items with those colors look fine something about the NEC looks hideous like that :p

Ah that's some nice CS from the manufacturer. It goes for anywhere you purchase from obviously? Where'd you get yours...aside from Newegg I'm considering calling Dell and seeing what kind of discount they can give. Last month they had a 15% off electronics and accessories so it could end up pretty low with an easy return/exchange option.

Newegg. I wish I could of found a place that had a no dead pixel policy. I feel your pain with buying a NEC monitor online. I hate having to do it as well. Business lcd monitors from nec have one advantage that they send you a brand new one during the 3 year warranty instead of fixing it like with the consumer products but for the same price you get less screen size and the business models are very expensive even just for a 20" like $899 + There nice but to expensive. You can only get them online as well but with nec consumer lcd monitors thats basically the case as well.

I was looking at the LCD2070NX but not sure if its a better NEC LCD model or what? It may be a older LCD. I just liked it better because it was all black and I didn't need the speakers or tv tuner card. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824002270

Have you seen this one ? I believe its one of the business lcd monitors but the more affordable line.

This one as well I was looking at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824002144

The only problem with those two is they don't come in widescreen so I decided against them. I also didn't think they were as new as the NEC 20WXGx2.

[The Unforgiven]

Well, I bought the refurbed BenQ FP241W for $429 today. $42.50 for freaking ground shipping! Ah well. So I'll let you guys know when it comes.

[powersupply]

I received my NEC 20WMGX2! I love it! The only thing I was worried about is when I saw the lcd monitor it was shipped in the retail box and didn't have the retail box within a packaging box to protect the lcd monitor the best. I am shocked that newegg did this in less its not their fault somehow ? Thankfully the lcd monitor was fine but what if it would of rained or the box would of got crushed ?

It is a lot bigger than I expected it to be compared to my 19 inch CRT monitor. The only disappointed part of it for me was how difficult to put on the DVI cable in the back. Thats it. Games and text look amazing! For colors. Blacks look black! Whites look white! Wide screen really does make a big difference even on forums because forums have a lot of content going long ways. Finally no more scrolling left to right!

[The Unforgiven]

I've never seen a monitor from newegg shipped in a second box. LCD or CRT. Though, there would be no way they would want to put a huge CRT in a box. My Samsung 990DF was just sitting in my driveway when I got home after I ordered it. I had my BenQ shipped to my cousin's house, because I am rarely home during the daytime to receive anything, and I'd rather not have that nice of a monitor, refurb or not, laying out in the open.

[powersupply]

MadMan007 yes I have tried the built in tv tuner and its nice because I didn't have to install any drivers for it. It just works! I already have a tv tuner in my pc but this is a nice feature just to have if I want to record something while I watch live tv still at least! I don't think you can record with the tv tuner card though that is in the monitor. Inless I am mistaken? Does anyone know what kind of tv tuner it is and the brand?

I not sure what you mean by no scaling options with DVI though. Could you please explain that a little further ? I am guessing your talking about being able to run at a lower resolution than the native resolution and still having it look just as good ?

[powersupply]

Sorry I forgot to anwser your question about the remote. It is pretty nice because you can change all settings through it and it even has buttons for a PC1 and PC2 which is nice if you want to use the lcd monitor for two different systems! For the tv tuner its does very well. Its really nice being able to turn on and off the lcd monitor from a good distance without having to keep pressing the button on the monitor itself. I would think the button on the monitor could break a lot quicker or easier than the button on the remote.

[MadMan007]

Yea I PMd specific questoins rather than post them, but I guess having the info out there is good too.

About scaling, in general there are 3 types:
1) stretch/fill/full screen - takes whatever aspect ratio the source feeds and stretches to full screen. Can distort image proportions a little or a lot depending upon the difference. 16:9->16:10 isn't a big difference, 4:3->16:10 is.
2) maintain aspect ratio - stretches the image vertically to fill the screen but maintains the aspect ratio so the image isn't distorted. A 4:3 resolution would have black bars on the left and right in this case.
3) 1:1 pixel mapping - puts the exact number of pixels the source feeds on to the screen. Image is surrounded by black bars on all sides.

I suppose that's the only downside of the way the NEC displays things, it supposedly does not have any scaling options with the digital input and always stretches to full screen. The other inputs do have scaling options in the OSD. Not a huge deal for computer source since video card drivers can override this (as long as it works :rolleyes: some Nvidia drivers :bang head) Want to check that stuff out? :)

[MadMan007]

My NEC20wMGX2 is being delivered tomorrow, I love Newegg's NJ warehouse :beer: I'm just putting my fears aside and banking on NECs high quality reputation. I already have semi buyer's remorse though lol, I got it in silver/white because i'm going to keep the speakers attached and the black looks wierd to me with the speakers on. I figure it will go better with decor in the long run when it's on it's own as a non-computer monitor display.

[MadMan007]

One word: spectacular. I like glossy and this is the first IPS I've owned. I am extremely pleased with the NEC it's better than my aging Diamondtron tube :o I thought I'd liked the other LCDs I've tried but this is no comparison.

*edit: No dead pixels yay. The backlight is a touch uneven on an all-black screen but it's odd because unlike other monitors this doesn't show up as white haziness but rather as very dull golden-yellow. The same thing happens when viewing off axis or too close but to much larger areas, I think this is the way IPS is and it's exagerrated by the glossy coating. It's not really noticable in normal use though only on pure black screens and when viewing at unrealistic distance and angle. From a normal viewing position it's not there unlike shortcomings that bothered me on other displays. Some people posted about this on the [H] forum as well as in one or two website reviews but they said it went away after some use when the monitor loosens up. I don't have a choice having bought it fom the egg so :p here's hoping.

[RollingThunder]

One word: spectacular. I like glossy and this is the first IPS I've owned. I am extremely pleased with the NEC it's better than my aging Diamondtron tube :o I thought I'd liked the other LCDs I've tried but this is no comparison.

*edit: No dead pixels yay. The backlight is a touch uneven on an all-black screen but it's odd because unlike other monitors this doesn't show up as white haziness but rather as very dull golden-yellow. The same thing happens when viewing off axis or too close but to much larger areas, I think this is the way IPS is and it's exagerrated by the glossy coating. It's not really noticable in normal use though only on pure black screens and when viewing at unrealistic distance and angle. From a normal viewing position it's not there unlike shortcomings that bothered me on other displays. Some people posted about this on the [H] forum as well as in one or two website reviews but they said it went away after some use when the monitor loosens up. I don't have a choice having bought it fom the egg so :p here's hoping.

Mad,

I thought you would be pleased with it. I have the cheaper 90GX2 TN panel with the shiny panel face. This model doesn't compare with yours but I have no problem with any glare. As long as you are looking straight on without a bright background, there is no problem.

[MadMan007]

Yea it's kind of silly because all the 'pro' reviews that are anti-glossy coating always show the glossy monitors in the worst conditions with the monitor off entirely. When there's a picture it's not nearly as bad as they make it out to be and without being silly like putting a lamp directly behind you the reflections are minimal. I've been on a CRT though so it has some reflections anyway and I like glossy better than the anti-glare on some screens.

[powersupply]

MadMan007 glad to see you like your new NEC20wMGX2!

Sorry about taking a while to get back to you about scaling. I found out that I think it may be able to but not really sure. I remember reading something about being able to scale down some but not sure what kind of scaling it was.

[powersupply]

Mad,

I thought you would be pleased with it. I have the cheaper 90GX2 TN panel with the shiny panel face. This model doesn't compare with yours but I have no problem with any glare. As long as you are looking straight on without a bright background, there is no problem.

I heard some really great things about the NEC 90GX2. What is it like compared to other 19" lcd monitors from other brands?

[RollingThunder]

I heard some really great things about the NEC 90GX2. What is it like compared to other 19" lcd monitors from other brands?

PS,

It's a good general use LCD and a TN panel. There is some ghosting to be honest but I'm not a gamer so I really don't see it. As you know it used to be a $350 monitor early this year but now it's not and it's probably in line with similar other brands. I bought it from CDW when the price dropped to $209 some months ago. It's at "End of Life" for NEC now.

Since I have been a "fanboy" of NEC for a long time, I took the plunge with it as my first LCD. I'm satisfied with it and use it on my other machine. It does not compare to this Dell 2007fp I use on this machine and the price reflects that.

[powersupply]

PS,

It's a good general use LCD and a TN panel. There is some ghosting to be honest but I'm not a gamer so I really don't see it. As you know it used to be a $350 monitor early this year but now it's not and it's probably in line with similar other brands. I bought it from CDW when the price dropped to $209 some months ago. It's at "End of Life" for NEC now.

Since I have been a "fanboy" of NEC for a long time, I took the plunge with it as my first LCD. I'm satisfied with it and use it on my other machine. It does not compare to this Dell 2007fp I use on this machine and the price reflects that.

Thanks. Was thinking if I wanted two smaller cheaper lcd monitors on each side of my 20 inch lcd maybe this one would be it. Not sure if I need that many lcd monitors though. May be a waste.

[Warren G]

Dont mean to hijack this thread, but quick question, is there anyway to use a LCD monitor just for TV w/o a computer? My friend wants something around 22-24in LCD for her room and I've seen that theres been a few deals on the 22in for like 200$ AR or so. I was thinking maybe with a digital cable box she can hook up the monitor to it via compenent cables?