Help me pick a new LCD.

[Xstatic]

Im in the market to get a new LCD. Looking to get a 20-22 in. Was checking out the different models and brands and I know Samsung is a great monitor. And every loves the dells. Since Samsung makes a lot of Dells what one is better to go with? Is there a certain model to go with or what? I see some people like Scepter's and Viewsonic. How do they stack up? I don't want to spend over 300 but will go up to 320ish or so for a really nice monitor.

I am mainly using it for a gameing monitor and surfing, reading forums. 2ms is kinda what I'm looking for. Any help is appreciated. TIA.

[Xstatic]

What is the main difference in TN's and non TN's I guess. I see a lot of people like the Dell 2007wfp's. But it has a 16ms response time and a contrast ratio of 800:1. 16ms is horrid and 800:1 isn't bad but not near the best. Why is this such a great monitor? Not a gaming monitor? The specs sure don't show it being even decent for it.

[RollingThunder]

Im in the market to get a new LCD. Looking to get a 20-22 in. Was checking out the different models and brands and I know Samsung is a great monitor. And every loves the dells. Since Samsung makes a lot of Dells what one is better to go with? Is there a certain model to go with or what? I see some people like Scepter's and Viewsonic. How do they stack up? I don't want to spend over 300 but will go up to 320ish or so for a really nice monitor.

I am mainly using it for a gameing monitor and surfing, reading forums. 2ms is kinda what I'm looking for. Any help is appreciated. TIA.

Xstatic,

Here's what I did:

I really don't know that much about the internal construction and technology of monitors, I just know what looks good to me. By reading the "Displays" threads here for some time, I was looking for a nice 20" monitor. In the discussions, many praised the Dell 2007 models (among others) and I respect the guys' opinions here. I also went to the various stores to see what other brands looked like. The Sceptre didn't impress me and it was difficult to get a variety to see.

I'm not a heavy gamer so I wasn't concerned about that and the speeds of the various monitor's advertising is nothing more that their own advertising, I don't know how a layman can verify it except by buying one and playing heavy duty games on it. By then, it's too late, you own it unless you like traipsing to the stores and post office to return it.

I decided on the Dell 2007fp (not wide) for my needs. I watched Dell's web site for a month looking for a "sale" on their 2007fp (from $449), no go, their price stayed the same. I wasn't going to pay that kind of money for a 20." I watched Ebay for auctions on them and got tired of fighting with the sellers over ripoff $35 to $45 shipping costs. So then I went to Dell's "refurbished" section and bought one: $289 + tax = $309 delivered to my door, free shipping but had to pay sales tax (~ $20), free shipping. That's a long way from their $480 delivered retail price.

I was aware of the PVA / IPS panel types and I got a PVA model, it's perfect in every way, no dead pixels, no blemishes and a 3 year warranty. I decided not to play the "Dell Shuffle" over PVA and IPS panels so I kept it. I think it's a Samsung panel according to the information here, not a problem.

After having it for a week, I thoroughly enjoy it, I made the right choice for my needs. Who wouldn't like a Dell-Samsung build? No more searching and reading LCD monitor evaluations on the Internet, running to the stores to see them, no more wondering "What one to get?" The guys here are your best source for good items, I used their overall knowledge and made my choice. To some extent, you get what you pay for so be aware of that.

Buying a monitor is a big decision, it's your eyes into your computer and the world so you better be pleased with it because it's the first thing you see when you turn it on. I will be pleased with this Dell for a long time.

Are there other good 20" LCDs? Of course but you have to buy it to see it. Enough guys here praised the Dell 2007 series so that was good enough for me. If you like it, that's all that matters.

[Krome]

Consider a Samsung 215tw. It has multiple inputs [DVI/D-SUB/S-VHS/Composite/Component] which really closed the deal for me. The X-Boh 360 lQQks good in 720p/1080i on this one.

[smokie mcpott]

samsung 226bw will run you a little over 300 but its worth it
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001096

heres an open box... not a bad price at all
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001096R

[ProDriveTom]

samsung 226bw will run you a little over 300 but its worth it
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001096

heres an open box... not a bad price at all
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001096R

I would stay away from the 226bw. I had it and was disappointed. The stand is basically non adjustable (like 5 deg tilt) and there was an issue with vertical viewing. If you moved you head up or down 6" or more the brightness varied greatly. This means i couldn't sit back and watch videos with out the top half of the screen getting very dark.

I exchanged it for the HP w2207 and am very satisfied. The HP's stand is extremely versatile with something like 8" height adjustment, it tilts foward a few deg and all the way back till its flat and it rotates too.

You can get it here (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/HP-22-rdquo-Widescreen-Monitor-W2207/sem/rpsm/oid/176653/catOid/-12965/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) for $305 after rebate and if you are a AAA member you can get a coupon for an additional %10 off here (http://www.aaa.com/circuitcity).

[apt403]

The 226BW is a decent monitor, but you have to play the panel lottery. Samsung ships 3 kinds panels with the 226BW, one made by them (the one you want), one made by Chi Mei (the worst from what I hear), and one made by AUO. I've heard if you calibrate the monitor the other panels don't look as bad, but still, it's more trouble then it's worth.

I second the W2207, I'm planning on picking one up myself in a week or two, along with a colorimeter.

[Procharger]

If you are near a Best Buy and they have one this is the one I just bought. It's a bit bright almost too bright for reading so you'll have to turn it all the way down or adjust it through your video card but when it comes to games it's been a very good monitor so far...World of Warcraft has never looked better and Fear and CoD2 looked really nice with zero ghosting.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8357645&st=acer&type=product&id=1177112670706

oops here's the link

[Procharger]

I've been reading about how buying certain brand monitors is a lottery on how good it is depending upon which panel you get. So how do you tell? Also I just bought an Acer AL2223WD from Best Buy is their a way for me to tell which panel it has?

Thanks,
Jason

Sorry to the poster I didn't mean to hijack his post. I actually meant this for my own thread

[Thund3rball]

I've been reading about how buying certain brand monitors is a lottery on how good it is depending upon which panel you get. So how do you tell? Also I just bought an Acer AL2223WD from Best Buy is their a way for me to tell which panel it has?

Thanks,
Jason

Acer AL2223WD is a TN Panel. You can look up just about any panel here to see what it is.

http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php

What is the main difference in TN's and non TN's I guess. I see a lot of people like the Dell 2007wfp's. But it has a 16ms response time and a contrast ratio of 800:1. 16ms is horrid and 800:1 isn't bad but not near the best. Why is this such a great monitor? Not a gaming monitor? The specs sure don't show it being even decent for it.

TN's have fast response times but lack in colour reproduction. Good for gaming and usually priced right for the budget minded.

The 2007WFP comes in 2 flavours (LG=S-IPS and Samsung=S-PVA). Both are very good quality. S-IPS is best for colour reproduction and you won't find any other 20" S-IPS panel even come close to the Dell price. Don't pay attention to the 16ms. I game on mine everyday and it is FANTASTIC. I also do a lot of design work so S-IPS makes sense. The S-PVA comes close to it in colour reproduction. Without sitting them next to each other on on the same system you probably will never know the difference.

FYI. Many people here have the 2407WFP. That is a Samsung S-PVA.

Hope I helped :)

[RollingThunder]

Acer AL2223WD is a TN Panel. You can look up just about any panel here to see what it is.

http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php



TN's have fast response times but lack in colour reproduction. Good for gaming and usually priced right for the budget minded.

The 2007WFP comes in 2 flavours (LG=S-IPS and Samsung=S-PVA). Both are very good quality. S-IPS is best for colour reproduction and you won't find any other 20" S-IPS panel even come close to the Dell price. Don't pay attention to the 16ms. I game on mine everyday and it is FANTASTIC. I also do a lot of design work so S-IPS makes sense. The S-PVA comes close to it in colour reproduction. Without sitting them next to each other on on the same system you probably will never know the difference.

FYI. Many people here have the 2407WFP. That is a Samsung S-PVA.

Hope I helped :)

Thunderball,

You and a few others have been a big help. The Dell 2007fp I just got is a PVA and it's so good I'm keeping it! I'm not getting caught up in the panel lottery. I don't have an IPS to compare side by side but if anyone tells you the PVAs are no good, well, go look at one!

After getting this Dell with a PVA panel, I think it's more of a mental block to those that haven't seen one and have to have an IPS whether it's Dell branded or anyone else's. You don't see any complaints about the Dell 2407 PVAs either.

It's way overblown.

[Xstatic]

Ok so even tho the dells 2007's are 16 ms how does that stack up against the monitors that have 2ms and are TN's? I don't have a problem getting the dell it's just the 16ms is keeping me from doing it. I read on review sites that the Samsung 226bw is the best 22in monitor out there and then other people say to stay away from it. I don't quite understand. TN or S-PVA/S-IPS? 16ms or 2ms? All I care about is how well is does in games.

Confused.....

[Thund3rball]

Thunderball,

You and a few others have been a big help. The Dell 2007fp I just got is a PVA and it's so good I'm keeping it! I'm not getting caught up in the panel lottery. I don't have an IPS to compare side by side but if anyone tells you the PVAs are no good, well, go look at one!

After getting this Dell with a PVA panel, I think it's more of a mental block to those that haven't seen one and have to have an IPS whether it's Dell branded or anyone else's. You don't see any complaints about the Dell 2407 PVAs either.

It's way overblown.

You're welcome!!! :D

Yes I would agree for the most part on overblowing the IPS vs. PVA situation. I think much of that probably comes from the early versions of the 2407s. Before Rev. A04 and especially on A01- A02 there were serious banding issues. Also, No 1:1 pixel mapping for HD. But the 2407 A04s solve ALL of that from what I know and have seen myself.

[Thund3rball]

Ok so even tho the dells 2007's are 16 ms how does that stack up against the monitors that have 2ms and are TN's? I don't have a problem getting the dell it's just the 16ms is keeping me from doing it. I read on review sites that the Samsung 226bw is the best 22in monitor out there and then other people say to stay away from it. I don't quite understand. TN or S-PVA/S-IPS? 16ms or 2ms? All I care about is how well is does in games.

Confused.....

Response times are a very sketchy subject. There is no one standard for Co.'s to report times. Some report the time it takes a pixel to go from Black-White-Black. Others report Black-White (or vice versa). Dell I beleive reports Grey-Grey. Dell is probably the most honest about this, maybe :shrug:

You may notice a bit of ghosting in an action sequence on a DVD movie or fast motion while gaming. I have not had ANY issues with ghosting on my 2007WFP. I don't really watch movies much but I game lots. The Dell is a sweet choice, IPS or PVA!

[RollingThunder]

Ok so even tho the dells 2007's are 16 ms how does that stack up against the monitors that have 2ms and are TN's? I don't have a problem getting the dell it's just the 16ms is keeping me from doing it. I read on review sites that the Samsung 226bw is the best 22in monitor out there and then other people say to stay away from it. I don't quite understand. TN or S-PVA/S-IPS? 16ms or 2ms? All I care about is how well is does in games.

Confused.....

X,

Keep in mind that those millisecond speeds are those of the manufacturer. They lie! How would we know? How can a common consumer measure it? Until a standard is passed to enforce accurate advertising, they will continue to manipulate the numbers to whatever suits them best.

Some are given "gray to gray" which I assume is faster because it advertises better for selling them. Some may give it the more accurate speeds, I don't know. I've seen CoD played on a Dell 1907fp and it was gorgeous. I didn't see anything wrong with it.

I don't condemn any monitor that I haven't seen physically or used. There are many, many good ones. My eyes tell the final story. That's why there is chocolate and vanilla, not everyone likes vanilla!

Maybe Thunderball can explain it better, I can't.

[Thund3rball]

I think too much emphasis is given to response times. Manufacturers are choosing to design panels with faster times as opposed to accurate colour reproduction. It is an important factor in gaming and watching movies but my 16ms 2007WFP performs smooth as butter. As I said, pay no attention to the response times reported by the manufacturers.

[Xstatic]

Anyone know how good these 2 LCD's are?
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-5123
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-4688
The difference of ms response time is what gets me. Is the color better on the 2007wfp and the ms on it is not to be considered any different than the e207wfp?

[BossBorot]

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-5123

crap

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-4688

pure awesomeness

the first one is a budget tn panel where as the second one has S-IPS or a S-PVA panel. The 2007wfp is one of the most popular monitors around for a reason :)

[Xstatic]

Ok, I am looking for a 22in but no one seems to recommend any. Dell has a 22in E228wfp for 309 which is $30 cheaper than the 20in. Is this a crappy TN panel aswell. I thought tn panels were great for games. I don't intend on watching movies on it. I have a big DLP for that.

[MadMan007]

I have a feeling the people who dismiss TNs as 'crap' haven't seen one of the newer ones in person, I suggest getting one from BB then returning it to see ;)

The old ones which were only spec'd for 16.2mil colors with dithering were pretty bad. They did physical dithering, with adjacent pixels showing one of the 256k colors which each pixel was able to display to approximate the correct one. This looked bad because you could easily see that the pixels weren't showing the right color - think 16-color graphics. The modern ones mostly use some kind of 'FRC' (frame-rate control) which means the individual pixel transitoins between two colors to display the correct one and that means no visually noticable dithering. The number of colors each pixel can truly show is still the same but the FRC method is miles better than the old physical dithering. It isn't as good as IPS or *VA panels but it's not near as bad as old TNs. I was pleasantly surprised with the quality of a 'crappy TN' :rolleyes: panel in the HP w2207 monitor.

[Thund3rball]

Ok, I am looking for a 22in but no one seems to recommend any. Dell has a 22in E228wfp for 309 which is $30 cheaper than the 20in. Is this a crappy TN panel aswell. I thought tn panels were great for games. I don't intend on watching movies on it. I have a big DLP for that.

If you have your heart set on a 22" LCD that HP MadMan has is a good choice. The Samsung 226BW is another popular 22" that gets good reviews. But Samsung seems to be playing a bit of a lottery with these ala: Dell. You can read about it here.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1157788

Also... 22" panels are the same resolution as 20" panels (1680x1050). So technically, you are just looking at bigger pixels than a 20" panel :\

[RollingThunder]

I have a feeling the people who dismiss TNs as 'crap' haven't seen one of the newer ones in person, I suggest getting one from BB then returning it to see ;)

The old ones which were only spec'd for 16.2mil colors with dithering were pretty bad. They did physical dithering, with adjacent pixels showing one of the 256k colors which each pixel was able to display to approximate the correct one. This looked bad because you could easily see that the pixels weren't showing the right color - think 16-color graphics. The modern ones mostly use some kind of 'FRC' (frame-rate control) which means the individual pixel transitoins between two colors to display the correct one and that means no visually noticable dithering. The number of colors each pixel can truly show is still the same but the FRC method is miles better than the old physical dithering. It isn't as good as IPS or *VA panels but it's not near as bad as old TNs. I was pleasantly surprised with the quality of a 'crappy TN' :rolleyes: panel in the HP w2207 monitor.

Mad,

I agree, I also have an NEC 90GX2 TN panel as my first LCD, it's fine. Not as good as this Dell 2007fp but when I bought the NEC the big price cut was just in effect earlier this year at CDW. This model is probably at its EOL now ($209 + tax). I can notice the subtle differences now but it's certainly not junk.

[smokie mcpott]

i am extremely happy with my samsung 226bw.. much better quality than the sceptre gamer 20.1 widescreen that i have as well

[Xstatic]

Smokie, How does the res look between the the 2 at 1680x1050? Better on the 20 or is it fine on the 22?

I am so torn on what monitor to get.

[smokie mcpott]

i think the samsung 22 is much better than the sceptre 20.1
there was a bit of banding with the 20.1 that i didnt like...
im seriously in love with the 226bw...its the nicest monitor i have owned

[psi]

Glad i found this thread. I tried the acer 22" from BB last week during the sale. It look good on images and games, but reading text was horrible. I tried all tweaks i could find, but it was still blurry. Blurry enough to give my wife and I a headache.

I am curious about the E228WFP? is it not a good monitor? Or does the 2007WFP win hands down?

Any ghosting in games with the 2007WFP? Like really fast past games?

I was thinking of the SS 226bw, but I am torn on what to do just like the OP in this thread.
Since bestbuy and CC dont have most monitors on seapreate PC's its hard to see what they look like, since they all running off of one pc. Then if you do get them to put it on a PC, the onboard gfx card can't handle the native resoultion. So now i got to trust what people think online, so here i am lol.

I am a hardcore gamer and a forum junkie. So i like to read and play games and also watch movies. I know their is a monitor out there for me!

Also it seems that most ship from Dell in like 2-4 weeks, WTH is that about? Besides the 2007WFP it ships within 24hrs

[RollingThunder]

Glad i found this thread. I tried the acer 22" from BB last week during the sale. It look good on images and games, but reading text was horrible. I tried all tweaks i could find, but it was still blurry. Blurry enough to give my wife and I a headache.

I am curious about the E228WFP? is it not a good monitor? Or does the 2007WFP win hands down?

Any ghosting in games with the 2007WFP? Like really fast past games?

I was thinking of the SS 226bw, but I am torn on what to do just like the OP in this thread.
Since bestbuy and CC dont have most monitors on seapreate PC's its hard to see what they look like, since they all running off of one pc. Then if you do get them to put it on a PC, the onboard gfx card can't handle the native resoultion. So now i got to trust what people think online, so here i am lol.

I am a hardcore gamer and a forum junkie. So i like to read and play games and also watch movies. I know their is a monitor out there for me!

Also it seems that most ship from Dell in like 2-4 weeks, WTH is that about? Besides the 2007WFP it ships within 24hrs

PSI,

I'll comment on the Dell 2007fp: even the smallest text is crystal clear, I kid you not. I bought from the Dell refurbished URL because I wasn't paying $449 for it and I wasn't going to fight the Ebayers and their $45 shipping costs. It's perfect with a 3 yr warranty, $309 delivered. It's not the "wide" model but I think the panels are the same. The 2007wfp are a little less FYI.

[Thund3rball]

PSI,

I'm with RollingThunder... go with the Dell 2007WFP. I love mine! You can even get a smokin deal like him on a refurb. ;)

[psi]

PSI,

I'm with RollingThunder... go with the Dell 2007WFP. I love mine! You can even get a smokin deal like him on a refurb. ;)


Yeah they got UltraSharp 2007WFP for $269, thats not bad at all.

Since I am a hardcore gamer, any ghosting with these monitors? Cause i was reading about the ms in this thread, I really shouldnt rely on that should I?

[Thund3rball]

Yeah they got UltraSharp 2007WFP for $269, thats not bad at all.

Since I am a hardcore gamer, any ghosting with these monitors? Cause i was reading about the ms in this thread, I really shouldnt rely on that should I?

No, no ghosting. I can verify as I play HL2, Quake 4, FEAR, Prey, Farcry... Your games will look amazing on this monitor. Totally immersive. I hardly pay any attention to response times cause manufacturers don't all report the same way.

Colours will look fine out of the box but can always look better with adjustments so be sure to google monitor calibration too.

Enjoy :D

[Procharger]

Glad i found this thread. I tried the acer 22" from BB last week during the sale. It look good on images and games, but reading text was horrible. I tried all tweaks i could find, but it was still blurry. Blurry enough to give my wife and I a headache.


Now that the sale is over I don't recommend the Acer 22" as it is $299. I own the Acer 22" from Best Buy and haven't noticed any blurrying of text etc and games play wonderful down to fear, BF2, WoW etc. As far as blurry text maybe I'm not so observant but I haven't noticed any. The downside to this monitor though is it's overly bright picture which I turn the brightness most of the way down.

[RollingThunder]

No, no ghosting. I can verify as I play HL2, Quake 4, FEAR, Prey, Farcry... Your games will look amazing on this monitor. Totally immersive. I hardly pay any attention to response times cause manufacturers don't all report the same way.

Colours will look fine out of the box but can always look better with adjustments so be sure to google monitor calibration too.

Enjoy :D

Thunderball,

I can also state no ghosting at all here. The NEC does have some ghosting but it's $100 cheaper and a TN panel.

[Thund3rball]

Thunderball,

I can also state no ghosting at all here. The NEC does have some ghosting but it's $100 cheaper and a TN panel.

The choice is clear. It is your Destiny :attn:

[psi]

The choice is clear. It is your Destiny :attn:
Well guess ill prob go with that dell then, i really wanted a 22" but i guess its really just a number? I see the E228WFP on dells site, its cheaper, but probally not as good as the 20"

[Thund3rball]

Yes 20" Dell is better. Enjoy :D