Plasma TV's Longer Lasting?

[BigDan3131]

Whats the word on plasma tv's? Are they lasting longer than a few years like I heard claims of?

[RollingThunder]

Whats the word on plasma tv's? Are they lasting longer than a few years like I heard claims of?

Owners have stated they are but if they don't, expensive to fix. Five year old plasmas are old technology anyhow. The new ones are nice but they run very warm (put your hand next to the screen) and take 2 to 3 times the power to run them. That's why the prices are coming down on them but many are still a good buy.

[Mobious]

They run very hot, so they have to manufacture them out of metal and glass; this makes the unit weight A LOT (it took four guys to lift a 58" Panasonic plasma onto a stand at my work, thing weighed at least 200lbs) and the glass translates out to glare, and lots of it (any light source in the room will reflect and with great detail). They go through a lot of juice, and saying a plasma is "energy star rated" is like saying a Chevy 3/4-ton pickup gets "decent gas mileage", and will cost almost twice as much money to run as an LCD (as an added bonus, your house will feel like West Palm Beach in the summer time year round). And, worst of all IMO, the technology is based of using Phosphorus to create an image which means only one thing: BURN IN. A plasma uses three separate cells (a red, a green, and a blue) for each pixel to make different colors, inside each cell is a gas and coating the cell is a layer of Phosphorus; apply electricity to the gas and you get UV light, the light causes the Phosphorus to react and TAH-DAH, a pixel lights up a certain color. However, leave this pixel on a certain color for a prolonged period of time (aka: a ticker bar at the bottom of a screen, HUD from a video game, a caption icon, a COMPUTER DESKTOP, basically any static picture that isn't pure black) and you kill the Phosphorus and end up with a ghost image of what was there, aka: a "burned in image". This happens on both CRTs and plasmas, but is more common (and more destructive) on plasmas. I sell TVs at Sears and I can't tell you how many plasmas we've killed because someone left one on the menu screen for a DVD and now there is a ghost image of the title and every button from the menu. As for lifespan: you'll get about 5-7 years out of both a plasma or an LCD. HOWEVER, over time a plasma unit will begin to get darker and darker until you basically can't see anything on the screen, LCDs will stay the same quality unless you physically abuse the screen or if the backlight dies (if you don't turn it on and off like 20 times a day, you might get a little more life out of it). IMO, for the money, chuck out a little extra for an LCD, save yourself the pain and the effort (the amount extra for an LCD covers the amount you will save in misc repairs and replacement as well as the electricity and piece of mind you will lose). And, as a side note: you can't get a 1920x1080 resolution plasma.

-Mobious-

[RollingThunder]

They run very hot, so they have to manufacture them out of metal and glass; this makes the unit weight A LOT (it took four guys to lift a 58" Panasonic plasma onto a stand at my work, thing weighed at least 200lbs) and the glass translates out to glare, and lots of it (any light source in the room will reflect and with great detail). They go through a lot of juice, and saying a plasma is "energy star rated" is like saying a Chevy 3/4-ton pickup gets "decent gas mileage", and will cost almost twice as much money to run as an LCD (as an added bonus, your house will feel like West Palm Beach in the summer time year round). And, worst of all IMO, the technology is based of using Phosphorus to create an image which means only one thing: BURN IN. A plasma uses three separate cells (a red, a green, and a blue) for each pixel to make different colors, inside each cell is a gas and coating the cell is a layer of Phosphorus; apply electricity to the gas and you get UV light, the light causes the Phosphorus to react and TAH-DAH, a pixel lights up a certain color. However, leave this pixel on a certain color for a prolonged period of time (aka: a ticker bar at the bottom of a screen, HUD from a video game, a caption icon, a COMPUTER DESKTOP, basically any static picture that isn't pure black) and you kill the Phosphorus and end up with a ghost image of what was there, aka: a "burned in image". This happens on both CRTs and plasmas, but is more common (and more destructive) on plasmas. I sell TVs at Sears and I can't tell you how many plasmas we've killed because someone left one on the menu screen for a DVD and now there is a ghost image of the title and every button from the menu. As for lifespan: you'll get about 5-7 years out of both a plasma or an LCD. HOWEVER, over time a plasma unit will begin to get darker and darker until you basically can't see anything on the screen, LCDs will stay the same quality unless you physically abuse the screen or if the backlight dies (if you don't turn it on and off like 20 times a day, you might get a little more life out of it). IMO, for the money, chuck out a little extra for an LCD, save yourself the pain and the effort (the amount extra for an LCD covers the amount you will save in misc repairs and replacement as well as the electricity and piece of mind you will lose). And, as a side note: you can't get a 1920x1080 resolution plasma.

-Mobious-

That's exactly why I just bought a Sony 40V2500 LCD! :)

[Evilsizer]

i came close to getting a plasma tv... after lots of research the time a plasma will last depends on the "brightness" level. lower brightness translates to longer lasting. the newest gen plasma's have up to 30,000-60,000hr life span based on brightness. i would have gone plasma as vs lcd to me the plasma's looked better. i also might have gotten a lcd tv for the biggest reason being thin just liket he plasma's but not as costly. End the end i got a DLP 42in, it just so happened to be on clearnce. the store was not going to carry that small of DLP's anymore since they hardly sold them. the sammy DLP i got only cost me $600 out of pocket that is with the 4yr extrended warrenty thru BB. the other half of the cost was a birthday present so in the end the 42inch dlp cost the same as the sammy 32inch lcd tv.

the way i have figured it out with the tv's is this. if you have money and want the best go Plasma. then DLP vs LCD both much cheaper then plasma of course. it really comes down to how much room you have for the tv. the 42in i have has 3inch less depth then the sony 27in tv it replaced. it is also 30lbs lighter. if you really need a thin tv with out much cost look at the lcd's. if you can afford the space DLP's IMO offer better IQ/color quality then lcd's. for this lcd vs dlp comparo though is my sammy 740B computer monitor. i tweaked both the monitor and the dlp. watched the same movie and found that i much preffered the DLP over the lcd.

if you really are on the cheap there are crt HDTV's that cost much less then lcd/dlp. you can get a 30inch hdtv from samsung for $599, where if you look at the closest size lcd which is 32inch's is around $1.2k. Crt's still offer great IQ i would have gone that route but i had money to spend, hehe.

just tring to keep ya thinking about what to get and not limit your self to one type. there is no one size fits all here and in the end it is what are you going to be happiest with for the long term.

[Gautam]

It's actually quite the opposite IMHO Evil. For under $1500, if you want a good picture quality, Plasma is pretty much the only choice. (Sorry, Olevias and Westinghouses do not apply in my book :p)

The Sony Bravia LCD's are gorgeous and have wonderful resolution...but it comes at quite a pretty penny. A plasma from Panasonic or Phillips can give you IQ at just about the same level for half the price, but not at the same resolution of course.

I'm somewhat of a plasma fanboy, but I'd be more receptive to LCD's if the good looking ones were priced more reasonably.

[Evilsizer]

about the only plasma screens i see near $500 or even slightly under that are all 42in screens. size to $ ratio lcd and dlp's offer more, though i did notice a new sammy model lcd $1999 40in 1080p res. After reading lots about this before buying. many tv's even if using 720p can look just or better then 1080p screen. s. some may find that hard to believe but on the list of 5 or 6 things they eye see's. when watching movies/shows res was the last thing on the list in terms of most important to what "we" notice as to helping it make look good. contrast and other such things about the tv were more important then the res. i am a plasma fan but for $600 out of my pocket no plasma can touch that....

*edit*
some links that some here might find usefull, i know i did.
PLASMA vs DLP
http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/dlpvsplasmatv.html

PLASMA vs LCD
http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatvreviews/plasma-vs-lcd.html

DLP vs LCD
http://www.dlptvreview.com/dlptv/dlptelevision.html

[Gautam]

Heh well, the difference is you're talking about 32" and 37" TV's, whereas I'm talking about 40" and larger. ;) For bigger TV's, plasmas are usually cheaper.

[Audioaficionado]

DLPs are getting better but I can still see those rainbow artifacts when I watch 'em. If they can get 3 DLP chips and dump that color wheel while maintaining the good prices, I might bite.

I see that screen door effect in Plasma screens that I don't see in LCD screens.

I was contemplating on getting a rear projection LCD but those sparkle artifacts are a no go for me.

So I'm waiting for a decent 1080p LCD of sufficient size to drop within my ~$2k striking range. Just when one gets close, I see it's bigger brother and decide to wait on it instead :p

[RollingThunder]

about the only plasma screens i see near $500 or even slightly under that are all 42in screens. size to $ ratio lcd and dlp's offer more, though i did notice a new sammy model lcd $1999 40in 1080p res. After reading lots about this before buying. many tv's even if using 720p can look just or better then 1080p screen. s. some may find that hard to believe but on the list of 5 or 6 things they eye see's. when watching movies/shows res was the last thing on the list in terms of most important to what "we" notice as to helping it make look good. contrast and other such things about the tv were more important then the res. i am a plasma fan but for $600 out of my pocket no plasma can touch that....

*edit*
some links that some here might find usefull, i know i did.
PLASMA vs DLP

http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/dlpvsplasmatv.html

PLASMA vs LCD
http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatvreviews/plasma-vs-lcd.html

DLP vs LCD
http://www.dlptvreview.com/dlptv/dlptelevision.html

Evil,

This is quite out of date:

http://www.dlptvreview.com/dlptv/dlptelevision.html

I just bought a Sony Bravia 40V2500 after months of research. He's comparing DLP with LCD EDTV. Where is his head?

This model is a good mid-range Sony, I can't afford the XBR's. It's $1999 at Sears this week and the lowest prices I have ever seen on this model.

Sony Bravia 40V2500: Contrast ratio 1300:1 contrast ratio (7000:1 dynamic). He's saying "The current crop of LCD displays will have contrast ratios ranging from 350:1 to 800:1" ??

You shop with your eyes, then your pocketbook. After numerous trips to the stores to look at pictures, the Sony and Samsungs were the best LCDs (IMO). LG was good too.

If you want a plasma and have central air, the plasmas will cancel that out nicely. They radiate a lot of warmth and you can watch your electric KwH dial spin very quickly (2 to 3 times more power consumption than LCDs). I don't see a better picture with plasma (in the 40" range). Rear projection is old technology which wasn't that good to begin with (IMO). Their prices and the plasmas are coming down quickly because people have done their research. They are losing popularity and the big stores don't sell that many anymore.

I saw the plasma and LCDs as even but with all the caveats with plasma, the choice was easy.

Some of the DLPs were excellent too in the 42" range.

The bigger LCDs cost more because more people want them. I don't think they are worth more but they sell them at higher prices because they can.

Please understand this is just my opinion. I'm not putting down other technologies, it's just what my eyes saw. I began all my research with an open mind to everything and the Sony Bravia was my final decision.

Just connected the new Sony with minimal effort and to an older DVD player and it's all they say there are. Outstanding.

[greyharte]

the other issue that i look for when shopping for plasma/lcd/dlp tv's is viewing angle ... if there is 1 thing i hate most its having to sit directly in front for best viewing ... i would easily give "some" IQ for greater viewing angle

[Evilsizer]

Heh well, the difference is you're talking about 32" and 37" TV's, whereas I'm talking about 40" and larger. ;) For bigger TV's, plasmas are usually cheaper.
not the case my friend all were 42inch as i was looking on bb's website... i didnt come across any plasma's smaller then 42inch. anything under 42in was lcd
s, i would be interested to see some smaller ones if you have links.


the rainbow effect is slightly there it depends on the movie i watch. even though the 42in i have uses a faster rpm for the color wheel. 14k and idk what they use to be though. i think audio is on to something if they use 3 dlp chips and lose the color wheel or make it fast enought to where you dont get the rainbow efftect. just incase some are wondering i got this samsung DLP
http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/DLPTV/HLS4266WXXAA.asp

i still prefer my DLP for tv over LCD's, the only better one here is plasma's IMO.

[Mobious]

CURRENT LCDs and Plasmas have a 178-degree viewing angle; unless you are completely parallel with the TV you will see what is on the screen (glare from the glass panel on a plasma might obscure your view at certain angles). And as far as decent quality LCDs, for decent prices:

Go Sharp if you're gunna get a 1080p LCD TV. I've been selling TVs at Sears for a few months now, and Sharp is BY FAR my favorite item to sell (best contrast ratios out there, and we've had HDDVDs and XBox 360s hooked up to the 46" Sharp and a 46" Sony XBR and the difference is HUGE, the Sharp being better by far), and as a plus side, they don't cost nearly as much as the Samsungs or the Sonys:

42" Sharp 1080p: $1799.99 (6ms, 6000:1) $99.99 S&H
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16889101097

46" Sharp 1080p: $2099.99 (4ms, 10000:1) $99.99 S&H
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16889101094

52" Sharp 1080p: $2899.99 (4ms, 10000:1) $99.99 S&H
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16889101095

Compared to the Samsungs:

40" Samsung 1080p: $1999.99 (8ms, 6000:1) $99.99 S&H
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16889102062

46" Samsung 1080p: $2549.99 (8ms, 6000:1) $99.99 S&H
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16889102103

52" Samsung 1080p: $3599.99 (8ms, 6000:1) $99.99 S&H
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16889102115

And just for good measure, the overpriced (but decent) Sony XBRs:

40" Sony XBR: $2599.99 (4.5ms, 7000:1) $99.99 S&H
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16889252038

46" Sony XBR: $2999.99 (4.5ms, 7000:1) $99.99 S&H
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16889252019

52" Sony XBR: ~$3999.99 (4.5ms, 7000:1) ~$99.99 S&H

-Mobious-

-Mobious-

[Surfrider77]

Whats the story with the rear projection LCDs?

I was viewing the new 1080p 70" Sony rear proj LCD and I thought it was amazing. I was sat comparing it with top of the line Sony and Samsung LCD flat panels. I couldnt help but being drawn back to the rear projection monster. It was honestly one of the best pictures I have ever seen.

KDS-R70XBR2 (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=KDSR70XBR2&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=tv_ProjectionTVs_RearProjection_55to8 0TVs)

[RollingThunder]

not the case my friend all were 42inch as i was looking on bb's website... i didnt come across any plasma's smaller then 42inch. anything under 42in was lcd
s, i would be interested to see some smaller ones if you have links.


the rainbow effect is slightly there it depends on the movie i watch. even though the 42in i have uses a faster rpm for the color wheel. 14k and idk what they use to be though. i think audio is on to something if they use 3 dlp chips and lose the color wheel or make it fast enought to where you dont get the rainbow efftect. just incase some are wondering i got this samsung DLP
http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/DLPTV/HLS4266WXXAA.asp

i still prefer my DLP for tv over LCD's, the only better one here is plasma's IMO.

Evil,

A good URL on various models of all kinds:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-jAI5xMgXnVx/cgi-bin/prodgroup.asp?g=146350

This is a great forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/

These forums will drive you nuts too. They nit-pick a lot over TVs and get very technical but they can be helpful. Each brand has their fans and many perceive their TVs and makers differently for each other.

Personally I throw out the professional evaluations. I don't know what makes the different units tick, I just want to turn it on and have it work so I look with my eyes at the stores. There is nothing really "terrible" with any of the technologies and it's subjective to the buyer's eyes as to what looks best for him. It's your money and you have to be happy. Panasonics makes plasmas smaller than 42" and they are nice but are disappearing from the market. A search will turn them up.

One of the best DLP's I saw was this one:

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Televisions&pid=05754085000&vertical=ELEC&subcat=38+to+51+inch+TVs&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes

This one was outstanding. Field of view was excellent as was the picture. The others were too big so I didn't place much value on them. I stayed focused in the 37-40 inch range maximum for my needs. My 40 Bravia is 52 lbs and it replaced a 25" CRT TV that weighed 95 lbs. I like that! The LCDs will fit anywhere with their thin profile. The DLPs and projections need more room to breathe.

If someone offered me a 40" plasma, I certainly wouldn't turn it down. After much research, they just weren't my first choice to buy. I'll bet I was at BB, CC, Sears 20 times over the last two months doing nothing but looking at the pictures and shopping with my eyes.

In the end, you must make yourself happy, not me or your neighbor or anyone else. Your eyes will tell you the right one along with your pocketbook. It's your money you're spending on whatever technology you finally choose. I still believe you get what you pay for and I avoided the Oliveas, Westinghouse, Polaroids, Magnavox "off" brands. I just didn't trust them in the long run, maybe incorrectly. The verdict is still out on most of them. I'm glad it's all over for me!

[RollingThunder]

Whats the story with the rear projection LCDs?

I was viewing the new 1080p 70" Sony rear proj LCD and I thought it was amazing. I was sat comparing it with top of the line Sony and Samsung LCD flat panels. I couldnt help but being drawn back to the rear projection monster. It was honestly one of the best pictures I have ever seen.

KDS-R70XBR2 (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=KDSR70XBR2&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=tv_ProjectionTVs_RearProjection_55to8 0TVs)

Surfrider,

I personally don't think large LCDs have caught up with large rear projectors. The very large rear projectors looked better to me than the very large LCDs. I remained focused in the 37-40 inch LCD range.

[Gautam]

Evilsizer I misunderstood...thought you were saying LCD's were cheap, not DLP's.

Like I said, the Bravia's are awesome. I don't think its possible to be dissappointed with em. But you can get Panasonic plasmas, another favorite over at AVS, for the low $1000 range and still come very very close. If everyone could afford the Bravia it'd be a no-brainer. :p

My folks have a Panasonic plasma from a few years ago, and are planning on getting a second very soon btw. They do put out plenty of heat, but it isn't that bad.

In the end though certainly trust your own eyes above all else.

[Surfrider77]

Surfrider,

I personally don't think large LCDs have caught up with large rear projectors. The very large rear projectors looked better to me than the very large LCDs. I remained focused in the 37-40 inch LCD range.

It basically came down to the 52" Sony BRAVIA LCD or the 70" Sony Rear Projection LCD. My GF likes the practicality of the flat screen, but I cant help thinking the IQ of the rear projection looked better. Not to mention an extra 20" viewing for nearly the same cost.

I just think my gf would kill me if I put that 70" monster in the living room; but damn it sure looks good!

[ChristmasGT]

Build a Projector :) I'll have naitive 1080p by the end of this week on a 120" screen

you can look at all my 720p stuff on Lumenlab.com

[Evilsizer]

this is what i was refereing to early in a post about res being the last on a list of what we see as helping improve IQ. though i thought there was like 6 items on the list it was 4.

fyi this thread was in the HTPC section.
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=501895