FYI: 1080p? might not be what you think afterall!

[LandShark]

1080p? might not be what you (or the sales) think afterall! even from an expert's eye!! (http://www.electronichouse.com/article/expert_interview_720p_vs_1080p/)


First, the current assumption that 1080p is always the “better” choice relies completely on the assumption that resolution is the most important indicator of overall performance—an assumption that really does not hold up in many situations. In fact, a recent SMPTE (Society of Motion Pictures and Television Engineers) study found that the four aspects of a picture that the human eye “sees”—in order of importance - are:

1. Contrast Ratio/Dynamic Range
2. Color Saturation
3. Colorimetry/Color Temperature or Grayscale
4. Resolution

So, all else being equal, resolution is actually the last item on the list in terms of picture quality and evaluation. High contrast ratio and accurate, deep color reproduction are generally greater contributors to overall perceived quality.

[Wicked Klown]

Wait wait hold the phone here. So does this mean I should be looking at a 720p rather then the 1080p sets I ahve been looking at. Right now we are looking at a 65" Mitsubishi DLP (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7823206&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050034&id=1142295054692) and a 61" Samsung DLP (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7705897&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat95100050039&id=1138085317167) Ok there are too many damn choices out there. You have 480i, 720p, 1080i, 1080p, DLP, LCD, Plasma, LCoS and CRT. For the love of God where does it end. :bang head:

[Maviryk]

LOL! So if someone were to give you a choice between 1080P 16m colors, 16ms response, 500:1 contrast, and 720x480 32m colours, 2ms response, 1000:1 contrast, which would you pick?

[Gautam]

Most likely 720x480 if its a large TV. The resolution just isn't that important unless you're sitting at insanely close viewing distances. Brightness, contrast and response time however, are very easy to appreciate. However, I'll admit, 480 is a bit a on the low side. When its 720p vs 1080p on the other hand, its a no brainer to pick the one with better brightness/contrast.

That's also why plasmas remain #1 in my book, with DLP's in a close second.

But everyone's different. Some people can be quite sensitive to resolution and not so much brightness.

It's really best to trust your eyes over anything else. Pick whatever looks right. :)

[Wicked Klown]

LOL! So if someone were to give you a choice between 1080P 16m colors, 16ms response, 500:1 contrast, and 720x480 32m colours, 2ms response, 1000:1 contrast, which would you pick?



Well the color, response time and contrast would be better on the 480. However it would suck to play games on it.

[Maviryk]

Well the color, response time and contrast would be better on the 480. However it would suck to play games on it.

Hehe, depends on the game. Starcraft is only 640x480 dontcha kno!

Gears of War's in game text is difficult to read with only 640x480 though.

[LandShark]

LOL! So if someone were to give you a choice between 1080P 16m colors, 16ms response, 500:1 contrast, and 720x480 32m colours, 2ms response, 1000:1 contrast, which would you pick?
it'll be a better question like
1080p, 16m colors, 16ms response time, 500:1 contrast ratio

vs

720p/1080i (which is most common supported on HDTV set nowaday), 32m colors, 2ms response time, 10,000:1 contrast ratio (the newest top end unit does have this!)

I think I'll take the 720p/1080i one IF everything else being equal (e.g. price, size, etc.).

also to consider the viewing distance! if you sit close to your TV (1.5~2x of the TV size) then res does matter! however, if you sit moderate distance (3~5x of the TV's size), then res won't matter as much!

and the real judgment is YOU and ONLY YOU!! if you like what you see, that's all that matter!!

(@ Wicked K. -- that Sammy is consider one of the latest highend model, you'll love it for sure!! ;) )

[Wicked Klown]

(@ Wicked K. -- that Sammy is consider one of the latest highend model, you'll love it for sure!! ;) )



That is great to know. The wife was looking hard at the Mitsubishi, however if the Samsung is better we will get that. After all I would rather have a better tv then have a bigger tv.

[LandShark]

the only requirement for my next living room TV (still another 2-3yrs from now) is 1080p/24!! :attn: I'm sure it will be a standard feature 2yrs from now!!

EDIT: while we are at it, see What you need to know about 1080p (http://www.electronichouse.com/article/what_you_need_to_know_about_1080p/) too! ;)

[Maviryk]

Is there such a thing as sitting TOO close to the TV?

I'm only sitting about 1.3x away from my tv...

[mcoleg]

theory might be sound but i can tell you that i can clearly see the improvement going to 1080p from 1080i on my westy 42". anyway, looks like that gentleman was primarily talking about projectors which cannot really be compared 1-to-1 with lcds or plasma screens so please keep that in mind.

there is one more thing to keep in mind as well when reading articles like this - the industry is trying to sell as many 720p/1080i panels as possible before they become obsolete. they are cheaper to produce as well so, considering the recent price drops in hd market one might wonder if there's no hidden interest on behalf of the experts who might have tight industry affiliations.

[Phrenetical]

nice article.

[nd4spdbh2]

ya my expierence with 1080p... is well nothing cus the mitsubichi "1080p" 62inch dlp tv my dad bought says 1080p right on the tv, but it will in no way shape or form accept a 1080p signal... the highest it can do is a 1080i upconvert... im not complaining but its sorta dumb when the tv claims to be a 1080p tv yet can only accept 1080i.... although my htpc looks AMAZING in 1080i... i really wish i could run it at 1080p.

[InfamousHindu]

I dunno man, theres a considerable difference from 720p to 1080p. I have a panasonic dlp projection(supports 1080p) hooked up to a ps3 and boy do those blu-ray movies look sick nasty. Also, the image qualities goes(from lowest quality to best), 480i, 480p, 1080i, 720p, 1080p.

[InfamousHindu]

ya my expierence with 1080p... is well nothing cus the mitsubichi "1080p" 62inch dlp tv my dad bought says 1080p right on the tv, but it will in no way shape or form accept a 1080p signal... the highest it can do is a 1080i upconvert... im not complaining but its sorta dumb when the tv claims to be a 1080p tv yet can only accept 1080i.... although my htpc looks AMAZING in 1080i... i really wish i could run it at 1080p.

what kind of model tv is it and how are you trying to get 1080p to your tv from you pc?

[InfamousHindu]

try this link.....make sure your settings are right in your nvidia control panel
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-805921.html

[Neuromancer]

I think the article assumes Only TV usage. For gaming/computer usage I would move resolution up that chart.

I know CRT wise, that when I game, I prefer higher resolution vs AA/AF usage anyday. Images are sharper and cleaner. more detail on the screen. Cant go wrong with that.

I just dropped from a 32" Olevia TV to a 22" Acer Widescreen LCD. Yes the TV was better for watching Video (1368x720 or something resolution), but the 22" (1680x1050 res) is better for all around computer use and gaming.

Granted thats not quite the difference of 1080p to 720p but its as close as I have experienced.

[splat]

also note that there is a difference between having the 1080p native resolution (1920x1080 iirc, like this http://www.visualapex.com/plasma/Plasma_details.asp?VA=Panasonic-TH-50PF9UK&chPartNumber=TH-50PF9UK) and supporting 1080p (like this http://www.visualapex.com/plasma/Plasma_details.asp?VA=Panasonic-TH-37PWD8UK&chPartNumber=TH-37PWD8UK)

every article I have ever read on HD content has come to the same conclusion: hd resolution on any TV under 50" is not needed. I have that 37" plasma i linked to above, which is an EDTV having a native 480p resolution of 852x480. It displays all HD content in full quality. My dad has a 50" lcd projection screen and a 32" lcd HD tv, and I would definitely say that the picture quality, in all aspects, is better on my EDTV Plasma than both of his TV's. When you are watching HD programs, you can't even tell that my plasma doesn't have HD resolution. You never have to worry about upscaling, too, which is a big plus for people who still have PS2's and xbox's.

still, 37" is getting to be too small for me. my next tv is probably going to be 50" full 1080p. probably another panasonic plasma. these things are nice.

[Nebuchadnazzar]

BTW 720 HDTV does not mean 720x480, but 1280x720
and 1080 HDTV means 1920x1080
These resolutions are greater than most of your computer monitors :p
The resolution of a standard dvd is 720×480

Even 720p resolution is 2.67 times as many pixels that standard DVD, that's why we're going to HD-DVD and BLU-ray, in order to store such huge files.
Also 1080p is 2.25 times more pixels than 720p.
I would say that unless you get a 60" or greater TV, 720p is fine.
Most media today is in 720 anyway so 1080 isn't needed. My parents have a 46" TV with 720p and i notice a big difference between HD and non-HD stuff through rogers digital TV.

[mcoleg]

BTW 720 HDTV does not mean 720x480, but 1280x720
and 1080 HDTV means 1920x1080
These resolutions are greater than most of your computer monitors :p


nope


I would say that unless you get a 60" or greater TV, 720p is fine.

i am sorry but that is wrong.

[Nebuchadnazzar]

nope

got any proof?

"Many of these standards have exactly the same aspect ratio and resolution -- their frame rates differentiate them from one another. When you hear someone mention a "1080i" HDTV set, they're talking about one that has a native resolution of 1920 x 1080 pixels and can display 60 frames per second, interlaced."
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/hdtv1.htm

[Maviryk]

Most of not all LCD monitors can display a resolution of 1280x720, greater than 720p.

1080p however is limited to 24" and larger desktop monitors and certain 17" Laptop monitors.

I have a 175" screen, 720p is definetely not enough. However I do agree that 60" and below 1080p will not be as important as other qualities.

You have to keep in mind that normal people don't sit 2' in front of their televisions, more like <7'.

[Nebuchadnazzar]

I can't wait for computer drives to come out for the HD disks, i'd love to try a movie on my 20" monitor, though 1080 movies would be downscaled...

[mcoleg]

got any proof?

"Many of these standards have exactly the same aspect ratio and resolution -- their frame rates differentiate them from one another. When you hear someone mention a "1080i" HDTV set, they're talking about one that has a native resolution of 1920 x 1080 pixels and can display 60 frames per second, interlaced."
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/hdtv1.htm

i meant this part: "These resolutions are greater than most of your computer monitors"; sorry for not being clear.

[blackbird007]

Man tv stuff is confusing now days.

[jordon]

We are super behind here in america.... in japan everything is broadcasted at over 1900.. HD is the standard there... they laugh at our 720 sets... they just sell us all there old stuff.

[roYal]

Or you can just spend a few grand on one of those 1080p LCDs that are 15000:1 contrast ratio!

[splat]

I was just reading an article that I found on slashdot this week saying the human eye can't distinguish 1080p and 720p on a 50" tv from 8ft away. So just like all other TV's, it depends on where you are sitting in relation to the tv and how big it is. I followed the math in the article to apply it to my 37" plasma that I have 7' away from my couch. It proved for me what I've known all along: that I would not be able to discern the difference between full HD and ED (480p) on my tv from my viewing distance.

I don't think I'm going to be buying a new TV for at least another year, probably two, so I'd be foolish to guess which one I'd go with since prices and availability are going to change, but I definitely wouldn't buy a 50" tv with more than 720p screen resolution since I sit 7'-8' away from my tv.

[mcoleg]

splat, try it first. the theory might look sound but it's not what i experienced, especially with 1080p source.

[splat]

splat, try it first. the theory might look sound but it's not what i experienced, especially with 1080p source.

well, my experience so far has been that my 37" 480p EDTV produces a better picture (any hd input) than my dads 32" LCD with 720p resolution and his 50+" tv with 720p resolution, sitting 7-8' away from all 3. I haven't seen a full 1080p resolution 50" tv to compare to, but from my experience so far, i'd say the math is correct.

[mcoleg]

try 1080i and 1080p somewhere with correct sources.