My HTPC build

[Mr. Roboto]

Well, after the holidays, i'm going to get my first HTPC build together. I will be using the parts from my old rig. Will be hooking it up to my 37" LCD HDTV for playing dvds, since it will upscale, and as a PVR. However I have a few questions.

The parts are as follows:

CPU: 2.8ghz p4
I used to run this at 3.6 daily, but don't think that will be necicary here, would rather keep it quiet.

HSF: Thermaltake XP-120

Memory: 1.5 gb of a bunch of different ram heh

Mobo: Intel 865perl

Video Card: 9600xt OR 6600GT
I have both of these for use. The 9600xt is much quieter, since I have an aftermarket cooler on it, but if you guys think the image quality on my 6600GT will be better, then i'll use that. Just wondering your opinions on this.

Case: Its all sitting in my antec tower right now, but I'd really like to get an HPTC case, so it will fit in the rack with my receiver, cable box ect. Any reccomendations here? Need one that will take a standard ATX mobo and PSU.

PSU: Antec truepower 430w

Tuner: I have a generic tuner right now that I pulled out of an HP MCE tower, but I want a better one. I'm kind of behind on tunders here, but I don't need an HD tuner. I can watch HDTV direct from the box, and am not worried about recording in hdtv. Will be hooking it up to my box via svideo and rca for audio, so need one that has at least that. Dual tuners would be nice, but would be willing to sacrafice them for better picture quality. Is the pvr-150 the way to go here?

Also, this just dawned on me. My 6600GT has VIVO. Can I use this in MCE?

I think that about does it. Once you guys help me pick a case and tuner, I think i'll be good to go :)

Thanks, as allways

[SeasonalEclipse]

You wont see a difference in image quality between the cards, Id go with the quieter one.

[The_Jizzler]

yea but arent the 6600's suppose to have some dvd playback/tv-out enhancements? iirc it was kinda a big deal when they came out.

as for a case, good luck. finding that oh so perfect full-atx htpc case can be a pain.
look at silverstone and ahanix, and some antecs. its a totally individual thing imop.

never used em but the pvr cards are suppose to be good. the pvr-250 is dual tuner if you didnt know.

pretty sure you could use the vivo caps. of that 6600 in MCE

[Mr. Roboto]

Well, I was thinking about this for the case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811133168

This is also an option to be integrated into the case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811999146

Any comments? I have a medie center remote I was planning on using, but this migh be better. The screen seems kind of cool, though I'm not sure how useful it would prove.

[LandShark]

PVR-150 is a nice tuner card. also, dont' get confused w/ the model number. the PVR-150 actually is a newer and use a newer version chip than the PVR-250.

[mrgreenjeans]

Looks good. I'd go with the 6600 and get the nvidia pure video package to supplement. My main concern was the fit of the Graphics card, which the silverstone LC-10m allowed for a full size card. many of the HT cases i looked at didn't have the room for a full on GPU. THough pricier, the silverstone I've got is wonderful. The front vfr provides just enough information without being overbearing and the vfr allows remote on/off/standby which is great on those days when you drop in front of the tube and hit a button and IT ALL comes on! gotta love it.

[Mr. Roboto]

I have the purevideo decoder now, with my 7900gt, and I think powerdvd gives better dvd playback.

Sorry, but whats the vfr?

[LandShark]

I have the purevideo decoder now, with my 7900gt, and I think powerdvd gives better dvd playback.

Sorry, but whats the vfr?
just make sure you enable hardware acceleration in powerdvd so it will use the 7900gt+purevideo. otherwise, it will just use it's own internal decoder.

vfr is the small display unit in front of some HTPC case (sorry, forget and too lazy to look for the full name :p ) that display some system/file info when the machine is on.

[Mr. Roboto]

just make sure you enable hardware acceleration in powerdvd so it will use the 7900gt+purevideo. otherwise, it will just use it's own internal decoder.

vfr is the small display unit in front of some HTPC case (sorry, forget and too lazy to look for the full name :p ) that display some system/file info when the machine is on.

Yeah, its checked off. I just think powerdvd does a better job at using it than WMP.

And ahh, so thats what those screenes are called. I'm still having a tough time picking a case out though :(

[LandShark]

Yeah, its checked off. I just think powerdvd does a better job at using it than WMP.

And ahh, so thats what those screenes are called. I'm still having a tough time picking a case out though :(
yeah, afaik, WMP doesn't really support hardware acceleration iirc. plus it really isn't a good player for dvd anyway!!

silverstone is a good company and has many case to choose from. plus their newer one has much better case cooling than the old design. (I used to have a LC10-M, now LC20-M) for bling bling, nothing beats the built in touch screen onto the HTPC case (which imho, is a waste of $$. who gonna take in front of the TV to "touch" the screen for anything?? well, may be I'm just not rich enough and jealous those who has.) also, Zalman's HTPC case has very good case cooling too! I personal don't care much of thermaltake's HTPC case tho... too computer look alike imho. but that's just me! just remember, case cooling is very important especially in HTPC!! 'cos the better the cooling design, the less noise you'll need to produce!

[Mr. Roboto]

yeah, afaik, WMP doesn't really support hardware acceleration iirc. plus it really isn't a good player for dvd anyway!!

silverstone is a good company and has many case to choose from. plus their newer one has much better case cooling than the old design. (I used to have a LC10-M, now LC20-M) for bling bling, nothing beats the built in touch screen onto the HTPC case (which imho, is a waste of $$. who gonna take in front of the TV to "touch" the screen for anything?? well, may be I'm just not rich enough and jealous those who has.) also, Zalman's HTPC case has very good case cooling too! I personal don't care much of thermaltake's HTPC case tho... too computer look alike imho. but that's just me! just remember, case cooling is very important especially in HTPC!! 'cos the better the cooling design, the less noise you'll need to produce!

Yeah, i've been looking very closely at silverstones line. I'ts really a question of how much I want to spend, I suppose.

[Mr. Roboto]

Ok, I think I finally decided on the silverstone LC20. I have a question though, is the only difference between the LC20 and LC20M the screen and remote? I see you have the LC20M, do you find the remote useful, as well as the screen?

I have a MCE remote now, as am going to purchase this keyboard for it:

http://www.btc.com.tw/english/2-7-21keyboard.htm#9019URFIII

My roomate had it, and using the joystick as a mouse works really well.

SO, not sure i'll need the remote. The screen would look cool, but not sure how much i'd need it.

[Jon]

Get a small LCD from Crystalfontz (http://www.crystalfontz.com). I have one on mine and it works very well. Not too expensive either.

[LandShark]

the VFD is more a "cool" thingy IMHO. (at least to me) but it does have it's own functionality and usefulness tho. it can display system info (date/time/cpu & memory load/drives space/record status/etc.) as well as files info (ID3 tag, video file time, etc.) using the right software. but I found myself not really look at it 99% of the time tho besides it's sitting in my A/V shelf and I don't really look the small VFD screen when I'm sitting on the counch. you see what I'm say?!

or you can do what Jon recommended and might save you $ and have a much better functionality screen too.

[Mr. Roboto]

Yeah, the VFD isn't that important to me, I think I will skip it for now.

Can anyone comment on the cooling of that case though? With 2 80mm fans in the back and the option for a 92mm intake as well, i'd imagine it's better than most. I'll jsut need to find some nice quiet fans to put in there.

[Wicked Klown]

The case cooling works well with this case. Right now I have a 92mm and a 80mm on intake and 2 x 80mm on exhaust.Here pretty soon I'll be changing all the fans in it to some quiet fans. I'm looking at the 100mm Scythe KAZE-JYU (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=39&products_id=4389) nice 42.69CFM at 22DBs and a set of 80mm Thermaltake Silent Cat (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37&products_id=1702) unless I can find another 80mm fan.

[Mr. Roboto]

Thanks for all the responses guys. Just need to place a few orders now.

I'll be sure to update with pics and stuff as I build.

[hyperasus]

LC20 is a great way to go. I've had both the LC20 and the LC20-M(with LCD). The LCD is fun for a minute and has good wow factor, but after all said and done I found it to be quite useless. It's hard to get it to do even the simplest of things such as display CPU temp from motherboard monitor 5, or show the name of whatever is being played in media player. If you have the money, I highly recommend the silverstone CW01. It is all aluminum and has a much nicer hard drive rack.

Another thing I should mention. Of the two LC20's I bought, one of them has a screwed up door. I went from an LC17 to the LC20 and I wish I would have stuck with the LC17. LC17 uses the same case design without the junky door.

[Mr. Roboto]

What's junky about the door, just the way it opens and closes?

I like the external look fo the 20 alot better, so it might be something i'd be willing to sacrifice.

[hyperasus]

The door wont even open or close unless I open the bottom door and push up on it from underneath, that gets the door out enough I can put my finger on it and force it open. Something is just screwed up on it. Has been since I got it. The other one works perfectly smooth. Just check it when you first get it and if it is messed up then send it back and get it fixed before you install all your computer hardware. I'd be willing to bet that bad ones like mine are pretty rare and you'l be fine with the LC20.

[Mr. Roboto]

hm, ok, hopefully you're right and it's just a fluke thing.

[Mr. Roboto]

Well, I got really busy, but I finally ordered my stuff. Got the LC20 and pvr-150.

Thanks for all of the help guys.

Now i'm onto trying to decide what software to run on this. I could either use media center 2005, mythtv, or gbpvr.

What do you all recommend?

Also, heres what I'm looking at for fans. What do you think?

2 of these for the rear
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/pa80br.html

and 1 of these for the front
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/pa92ulqu.html

[Wicked Klown]

The 80mm is a hydro wave bearing so you may hear it spin up and down at times. Nice and quiet tho and not a bad price. The 92mm however is a tad loud for a HTPC.

[Mr. Roboto]

I looked at that 100mm fan you liked to, does that fit in the 92mm fan hole?

[nd4spdbh2]

lol intersting i literally have the same htpc... 2.8c P4... 6600gt 512mb of ram... go with the 6600gt because it has alot more i guess you could say options for dvd play back acceleration... ima probably be putting together a tutorial on dvd playback with my HTPC and using ffdshow, zoomplayer, and nvidia purevideo codecs... the picture is utterly amazing when you do it this way.

[Mr. Roboto]

http://www.nvidia.com/page/purevideo_support.html

the differences aren't that vast. A passively cooled 6600 might be another way to go. I'd have more options if i weren't stuck to agp.

How does the 2.8 handle ffdshow? I heard its intensive. I'm confused too, does it work WITH purevideo? or can you only use one at a time?

[nd4spdbh2]

http://www.nvidia.com/page/purevideo_support.html

the differences aren't that vast. A passively cooled 6600 might be another way to go. I'd have more options if i weren't stuck to agp.

How does the 2.8 handle ffdshow? I heard its intensive. I'm confused too, does it work WITH purevideo? or can you only use one at a time?

i have yet to run in on my 2.8... but with my rig in my sig cpu usage never gets over 10%..

the way it works is you use Zoomplayer as like the window to show the video in... purevideo has a audio and video decoder that decodes the video and instead of sending it straight to the "viewing window" it passes through ffdshow which you can set to get rid of blur, noise reduction, and it will scale the video up to the size you set it at much better than anything else.

check this out
go here:
http://teamlosi.andrevas.net/mouseover/new.html

if you let the page load (shouldnt take long) the first image you will see (without your mouse over the picture) is zoomplayer playing a dvd without ffdshow and using powerdvd decoders.... when you mouseover the image you will see subtle yet very noticable differences... this is because with that screen shot i was using purevideo decoders and ffdshow... check out the plant and curtian for starters....

[Wicked Klown]

I looked at that 100mm fan you liked to, does that fit in the 92mm fan hole?



It's a 100mm fan made to fit the mount pattern of a 92mm fan. So going by that I would think it would fit. It seems they went with a little smaller hub to make the blade a little longer.

[kovboi]

Now i'm onto trying to decide what software to run on this. I could either use media center 2005, mythtv, or gbpvr.

What do you all recommend?

Also, heres what I'm looking at for fans. What do you think?

2 of these for the rear
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/pa80br.html

and 1 of these for the front
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/pa92ulqu.html
gbpvr is free so try it out for yourself. i found it to be a little clunky and i've been pretty happy with windows mce. if you get it now, you might be able to get one of those upgrade deals for vista mce.

as for quiet 80mm fans, i really like these:
arctic cooling acf8 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835186006)
nexus 80mm (http://www.svc.com/sp802512l-03.html)

[Jon]

My HTPC runs on a Pentium-M 1.6GHz@1.92GHz Banias (1MB L2), which is probably very close in performance to that 2.8GHz P4. I've also got my video going through a 6200 AGP card and do all my AVI postprocessing via ffdshow, and it handles it fine. I can't comment on DVD postprocessing as I'm running MCE and it can't do postprocessing via ffdshow for DVD (atleast without using ZP, PowerDVD, etc.). HD video (in AVI format) and x264 (very CPU intensive) also play back fine.

I've tried a bunch of the other HTPC software and still have stuck with MCE. Gb-pvr, MediaPortal, TVedia (Meedio), etc. They all have features I like, but I am never able to stick with them due to problems related to stability/maturity...not that MCE doesn't have its own quirks, but it still seems to work the best for me.

[LandShark]

FYI, I've been using Meedio + BeyondTV for 2+yrs now. love it.

[Mr. Roboto]

Oh yeah, I forgot about beyond tv...

I think I'll give the trial a shot

[Mr. Roboto]

gbpvr is free so try it out for yourself. i found it to be a little clunky and i've been pretty happy with windows mce. if you get it now, you might be able to get one of those upgrade deals for vista mce.

as for quiet 80mm fans, i really like these:
arctic cooling acf8 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835186006)
nexus 80mm (http://www.svc.com/sp802512l-03.html)

Hmm, that nexus looks pretty nice, thanks. I just need to find a decent 92mm fan.

[Mr. Roboto]

Well, Directron had the keyboard I was looking for, so I'm goign to order my fans from them as well.

heres what I ended up with, let me know if I should go ahead with the order.

http://www.directron.com/sf8025l.html
and
http://www.directron.com/sf9225l.html

They look nice to me anyways. Getting two 92s for the front and 2 80's for the rear. Also, id directron save to order from?

Thanks, as allways

[Mr. Roboto]

Sorry for the chunk of posts in a row.

I went ahead an ordered those fans last night, I want to get this stuff before the weekend.

I hope they're ok.

[nd4spdbh2]

hey just to let you know i got Media player classic working with nvidia purevideo (to deinterlace the video and change color option) and ffdshow (to sharpen, reduce noise, and scale) all working together... the picture is UTTERLY AMAZING... you can take windvd, powerdvd, and shove it MPC + Purevideo + FFDShow FTW... plus its looking like my 2.8C p4 northwood can handel it... ill let you know after some more final testing.


OOOO MAN i shoulda got back sooner... vantec stealths are no where near stealth... they have the WORST motor noise out of any fan that i have ever bought... i have a 92 and a 80mm one and they both exibit HORRIBLE clicking from the motor no matter what voltage they are at... and their blade design is horrible.

[Mr. Roboto]

damn, that sucks to hear.

Guess I can always RMA them.

[Mr. Roboto]

Well, I put it together last night after work. I'm having some motherboard related problems though. When it says "press any key to boot from disc....." i push any key and nothing happens.

This was the biggest pita build though, it took me forever. took me twice as long as when I assemble a regular tower pc.

also, the vantec fans arent that loud. my 6600GT is SO loud though, its unbearable. I dont know how I used to live with that thing. I'm looking for a passively cooled 6600 vanilla, posted a wanted in the classies, but noone has one for me, so i might have to end up buying one new, if i can even find one.

So thats my little update.

[LandShark]

Well, I put it together last night after work. I'm having some motherboard related problems though. When it says "press any key to boot from disc....." i push any key and nothing happens.

This was the biggest pita build though, it took me forever. took me twice as long as when I assemble a regular tower pc.

also, the vantec fans arent that loud. my 6600GT is SO loud though, its unbearable. I dont know how I used to live with that thing. I'm looking for a passively cooled 6600 vanilla, posted a wanted in the classies, but noone has one for me, so i might have to end up buying one new, if i can even find one.

So thats my little update.
the Vantec Stealth fan isn't bad at all imho. I like them!

as for the 6600GT, yes the stock hsf is LOUD!! especially for HTPC usage! on my old one, I replaced w/ NVSilencer and never hear anything it!! that's an option you can consider! ;)

[Mr. Roboto]

the Vantec Stealth fan isn't bad at all imho. I like them!

as for the 6600GT, yes the stock hsf is LOUD!! especially for HTPC usage! on my old one, I replaced w/ NVSilencer and never hear anything it!! that's an option you can consider! ;)

I was under the impression you could only do that with the pci-e versions of the card?

I thought the agp bridge got in the way on the agp version. Do you have a link?

Thanks for all your help thus far.

[dabl]

mr. roboto, did you end up with a Silverstone LC20 case and a Thermalright XP-120 heatsink?

I wanted to confirm the XP-120 would fit.

thanks,

--Don

PS a great resource for reviews of quiet fans and quiet pc parts in general

http://www.silentpcreview.com/

[Wicked Klown]

I have the SI-120 in my LC20-m case and have about 1/2" to 3/4" of room. I cut out a hole right above the HSF and put in modders mesh to allow air in to it. There is a 27mm diff between the xp-120 and the si-120. So if you go with that HSF you may have to make a hole for the air.

[dabl]

I have the SI-120 in my LC20-m case and have about 1/2" to 3/4" of room. I cut out a hole right above the HSF and put in modders mesh to allow air in to it. There is a 27mm diff between the xp-120 and the si-120. So if you go with that HSF you may have to make a hole for the air.

Thanks but it sounds like you have the height dimensions of the SI-120 vs the XP-120 reversed.

The XP-120 should have more height clearance than the SI-120

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

http://www.thermalright.com/a_page/main_product_xp120_775.htm
XP-120
L110 x W125 x H63 (mm) Fin only, without fan


http://www.thermalright.com/a_page/main_product_si120_775.htm
SI-120
L135 x W125 x H90 (mm) Heat sink only, without fan

[Wicked Klown]

Thanks but it sounds like you have the height dimensions of the SI-120 vs the XP-120 reversed.
The XP-120 should have more height clearance than the SI-120
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
http://www.thermalright.com/a_page/main_product_xp120_775.htm
XP-120
L110 x W125 x H63 (mm) Fin only, without fan
http://www.thermalright.com/a_page/main_product_si120_775.htm
SI-120
L135 x W125 x H90 (mm) Heat sink only, without fan


Yea the XP will have 27mm more clearance then the SI. So you would have 1.063" more clearance then I do. Best bet is try run with out the case top on record temps then run with the case top on and record temps. This will let you know if you need a little more air in there.

[Mr. Roboto]

I actually found a zalman cooler in my box of parts that I forgot about, which I ended up using instead, sorry :(

If there anythign I can measure for you though, don't hesitate to ask.

[dabl]

I actually found a zalman cooler in my box of parts that I forgot about, which I ended up using instead, sorry :(

If there anythign I can measure for you though, don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks man, appreciate it.

Yeah I'm thinking a horizontally configured heatsink in general is not really appropriate for a relatively short height case like this. A Zalman 9500 or an Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro seems like a much better match despite the fact that both the cooling properties and noise factor won't be quite as appealing. ExtremeTech used the latter for their htpc build with the LC20 http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2069441,00.asp

silentpcreview rates the Zalman quite a bit higher than the Arctic. http://www.silentpcreview.com/article30-page1.html

My question would be whether any of the 120mm fan based vertical coolers would work though I suspect they are all too tall.

I'm going to be building a gaming capable htpc system using an Nvidia 8800 GTS video card so that may well kill any cpu fan noise gains beyond a certain point.