trying to get best picture to HDTV

[nd4spdbh2]

OK here is the dealio, currently i have my HDTV hooked to my HTPC (specs below) via a HDMI cable that connects to the PC via a HDMI to DVI converter...

SPECS
P4 2.8C
Gigabyte mobo
6600gt AGP
512mb of ram
80gb seagate hd...

So the question is the best picture possible... Now i currently use Windows Media Player 10 along with Nvidias Purevideo decoder platnium but its really weird everynow and then the brightness will just change for a sec then change back and gets REALLY annoying... what could cause this? i know its something to do with the software because windvd 6 does not do this nor does a standalong dvd player...

So what is the BEST way to play a dvd on a computer?

if i could make windows media player play dvd's as easily as windvd 6 and without the brighness changes that would be aswome.

[Mr. Roboto]

I use powerdvd, and I think the picture is amazing. It upscales dvd's really well to my 37" lcd. I have purevideo too, and think powerdvd is alot better.

[nd4spdbh2]

ya seems like power dvd is a good recomendation... i think ima download Windvd8 trial and see if i can use purevideo on that and then compare it to powerdvd.

[bchur83]

I use strictly Power DVD. Works and looks great with my ATI card.

[LandShark]

best picture? use FFDShow for post processing (and resize) for the best picture quality (if your processor can keep up and you have time to play with it)!

[nd4spdbh2]

so what is FFDShow... how do i use it?

[LandShark]

so what is FFDShow... how do i use it?
download (http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/codecs_and_filters/ffdshow.cfm/rev__610__20061201)

this (http://www.htpcnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=132&Itemid=54)is a old guide, but you get the idea.

and this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=719041)is a long thread, but worth the time to read through it tho.

just remember it does use quite a bit of cpu power and sometimes (if you load up lots of post processing and trying to upscale to 1920x1080?) needs a pretty fast cpu to run the advance features! my old HTPC, P4 @ 3.2ghz, 1GB memory, 6600GT, purevideo, etc. couldn't run most setting and resize the picutre w/out dropping frame!!

[nd4spdbh2]

download (http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/codecs_and_filters/ffdshow.cfm/rev__610__20061201)

this (http://www.htpcnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=132&Itemid=54)is a old guide, but you get the idea.

and this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=719041)is a long thread, but worth the time to read through it tho.

just remember it does use quite a bit of cpu power and sometimes (if you load up lots of post processing and trying to upscale to 1920x1080?) needs a pretty fast cpu to run the advance features! my old HTPC, P4 @ 3.2ghz, 1GB memory, 6600GT, purevideo, etc. couldn't run most setting and resize the picutre w/out dropping frame!!


hmm well ill have to give it a try.. thnx

edit : wow i took a look at that article... im DEFINETLY checking out ffdshow thats quite amazing. if i can use that with purevideo... my god.

Edit: MY GOD SWEET... GOD the picture looks SOOOO GOOD... i got purevideo working with zoomplayer and ffdshow... only prob is upon a fast forward, or chapter skip playback becomes choppy... a really quick pause play fixes this... and its not my system cus im testing this out on the rig in my sig.

[nd4spdbh2]

not to double post... but WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOOW the picture quality difference is quite AMAZING...

i tooks some print screens

when you load the page the (without your mouse over the image) the SS is of a dvd playing in full screen (800x600) useing Powerdvd6's audio and video codecs with NO ffdshow.... the mouseover image is using Purevideo audio and video decoder, WITH ffdshow.

Take a look at the stairs, railings, the curtian, and plant... the difference is quite amazing (sorry for the change in width... sill doing some testing)

here it is...
http://teamlosi.andrevas.net/mouseover/new.html
im definetly gonna implement this on my HTPC... hopfully it can handel the stress... 2.8c p4... that has to resize to 1920x1080

[LandShark]

looks good!! http://landshark-racing.com/icon/thumbsup.gif

what setting you are using??

[nd4spdbh2]

im pretty much just using the settings that the tutorial told me... i am however using the purevideo audio and video codecs... so im getting the absoulte best picture possible. and the quality is amazing.

[LandShark]

great! glad it helps!! ;)

tried use the (by judging from your spec, might only able to use the low setting or best, medium setting) setting from avsforum. it might yeild even better quality (given your htpc could handle it)

[nd4spdbh2]

great! glad it helps!! ;)

tried use the (by judging from your spec, might only able to use the low setting or best, medium setting) setting from avsforum. it might yeild even better quality (given your htpc could handle it)


lol where you drunk when you wrote this it makes no sence to me.

[TombKeeper]

lol where you drunk when you wrote this it makes no sence to me.


I think he's saying:

According to your system specs, try using settings on AVSForums (probably only low to Medium settings though due to comp specs)....you might get better picture quality after...


:)

...am i right? :)

[LandShark]

lol where you drunk when you wrote this it makes no sence to me.
lol..... I guess I was still trying to recover from last night.... :p

what I meant is try to use the setting from the avsforum's thread than the how-to guide from the htpcnews.com (which I thought that's what you are using).

[nd4spdbh2]

lol..... I guess I was still trying to recover from last night.... :p

what I meant is try to use the setting from the avsforum's thread than the how-to guide from the htpcnews.com (which I thought that's what you are using).


ya i used the htpcnews.com guide... and wow i todally didnt ralize that you put a link to avsforum.... ill go check that out.

EDIT... ehh to many words on that avsforum... lol

[soulrider4ever]

not to double post... but WOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOWOOW the picture quality difference is quite AMAZING...

i tooks some print screens

when you load the page the (without your mouse over the image) the SS is of a dvd playing in full screen (800x600) useing Powerdvd6's audio and video codecs with NO ffdshow.... the mouseover image is using Purevideo audio and video decoder, WITH ffdshow.

Take a look at the stairs, railings, the curtian, and plant... the difference is quite amazing (sorry for the change in width... sill doing some testing)

here it is...
http://teamlosi.andrevas.net/mouseover/new.html
im definetly gonna implement this on my HTPC... hopfully it can handel the stress... 2.8c p4... that has to resize to 1920x1080

Could you get a screenie of that shot with windows media player w/ purevideo enabled within that? I'd like to see how purevideo looks w/o ffdshow, thanks.

[nd4spdbh2]

Could you get a screenie of that shot with windows media player w/ purevideo enabled within that? I'd like to see how purevideo looks w/o ffdshow, thanks.


ya no prob give me a day... and ill get it to ya... its gonna look exactly the same as the w/o ffdshow and powerdvd decoders... mabey some slight differences.

[soulrider4ever]

ya no prob give me a day... and ill get it to ya... its gonna look exactly the same as the w/o ffdshow and powerdvd decoders... mabey some slight differences.

cool thanks, and while your at it, can you set the noise reduction to 10% and edge enhancements to 50% in nVidia control panel? thx:beer:

[nd4spdbh2]

cool thanks, and while your at it, can you set the noise reduction to 10% and edge enhancements to 50% in nVidia control panel? thx:beer:

you can do that???? where at?

[LandShark]

you can do that???? where at?
using the 9x.xx forceware driver, there's noise reduction and sharpening under the video section of the driver setting app. :cool:

[nd4spdbh2]

using the 9x.xx forceware driver, there's noise reduction and sharpening under the video section of the driver setting app. :cool:


AHHHHHH I SEE!

hey sry man its gonna be another day for that screen shot... im pretty sick today and really dont feel like gettin off my ass :beer:

[nd4spdbh2]

hey im sry guys but its gonna be a coupla days, driver cleaner todally skrewed up my htpc somehow... n e ways it needs and needed a reformat so ima reformat and get screen shots of:

Windows media player w/o purevideo
Windows media player w/ pruevideo
Windows media player w/ purevideo + 10% NR + 50% edge enhancements
Zoom player + windvd decoders
Zoom player + purevideo + ffdshow

all this will be screen shots of ice age the meltdown, and a resolution probably just under 1920x1080

and mabey some other movies.

[Mr. Roboto]

i'm tellin ya, try out powerdvd

[soulrider4ever]

i'm tellin ya, try out powerdvd

It'll need to be powerdvd 7 tho to enable hardware acceleration aka purevideo.

[nd4spdbh2]

well you see powerdvd produces no where near the picture quiality i can get out of ffdshow and purevideo

[soulrider4ever]

well you see powerdvd produces no where near the picture quiality i can get out of ffdshow and purevideo

yea, but according to your previous post you used powerdvd 6, which wouldn't use the hardware acceleration from purevideo. You'll need version 7, which should obviously have a substantial increase in IQ using purevideo.

Also of note, don't forget to enable inverse telecine in the control panel, very important!

[nd4spdbh2]

yea, but according to your previous post you used powerdvd 6, which wouldn't use the hardware acceleration from purevideo. You'll need version 7, which should obviously have a substantial increase in IQ using purevideo.

Also of note, don't forget to enable inverse telecine in the control panel, very important!

oh yes... i did how ever forget to mention that i dowloaded powerdvd7 trial and saw no image difference.

ima get to reformatting my htpc soon

btw for the FFDshow download... how in the world is rev .610 a newer version than .736?

http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/codecs_and_filters/ffdshow.cfm/rev__610__20061201

[soulrider4ever]

oh yes... i did how ever forget to mention that i dowloaded powerdvd7 trial and saw no image difference.

ima get to reformatting my htpc soon

btw for the FFDshow download... how in the world is rev .610 a newer version than .736?

http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/codecs_and_filters/ffdshow.cfm/rev__610__20061201

Did you check the enable hardware acceleration?

[LandShark]

oh yes... i did how ever forget to mention that i dowloaded powerdvd7 trial and saw no image difference.

ima get to reformatting my htpc soon

btw for the FFDshow download... how in the world is rev .610 a newer version than .736?

http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/codecs_and_filters/ffdshow.cfm/rev__610__20061201
b/c it's still beta.

This is the latest stable version of this software. There is a newer beta version (rev. 740 (20070105)) available. The beta version might have new features compared to the stable version, but may also be more unstable.

[nd4spdbh2]

b/c it's still beta.




OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ... lol that makes sence.

[Phrenetical]

dont know about you guys and all your fancy software and dvd software but i have a simpler solution.

remove all the dvd player software install ffdshow + media player classic, and bam perfect picture quality, my mpc uses ffdshow and purevideo plus loads up a few other codecs for dvd, avi and other media.

and i dont have to fuss with proprietary software or cumbersome and annoying dvd player software. i used to use powerdvd and windvd and there was another one, but i found they all take to long to load, dont give enough options to skip through dvd, many of them disable the navigation menu to prevent u skipping FBI warnings.

MPC loads in about 1 second, u click on open DVD, it plays dvd, then you click navigate and go straight to root menu, no fuss no hassle. The advantage to MPC is it not only plays yours DVDs but it plays every single other piece of media you could possibly think of.

cons: no random option (uses randomise playlist sort option)

[LandShark]

yup! I would also recommend using ZoomPlayer or MPC (FREE!) + FFDShows. never like powerdvd/windvd personally.

[nd4spdbh2]

hmm ima have to look into media player classic... thnx ill report back.

[nd4spdbh2]

hmm well i got zoom player, ffdshow, and purevideo decoders working... on my hdtv and the picture quality is utterly amazing... one problem though... its almost like i get tearing of the picture. i get hard horizontal lines quite a bit... could this be because there is not enought processing power... im almost taxing out my lil p4 2.8... man i wish i could use hardware acceleration on my 6600gt...

EDIT.... i can turn resizing off in ffdshow to bring down cpu usage to 20-30% and i still get these horizontal lines.

EDIT #2... i followed THIS (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=1930617&enterthread=y) tutorial to get purevideo with ffdshow and Media player classic to work... problem is purevideo wont start up... and i would really like to use purevideo for deinterlacing and color correction.

[nd4spdbh2]

OK fixed the purevideo prob... i got MPC, ffdshow (for sharpening, noise removal, and scaling), and purevideo video and audio codecs (for flawless deinterlacing, video picture options such as brightness, and audio control) ALL working together in a perfect harmony!

I seriously didnt think i could get much better after i found just purevideo but these 3 programs combind are.... well words cant describe... the picture quality that im gettin that i can see on my 62inch DLP... is nothing like i have seen before.

plus my lil ole P4 2.8c can handle it... at my current settings im using right about 75% cpu usage while playing a dvd so im not dropping any frames which i could not stand for.

EDIT: sorry for like posting a bunch in a row

[soulrider4ever]

Let's get a lil tutorial on how to get that setup with mpc, and screenies plz!

[nd4spdbh2]

Let's get a lil tutorial on how to get that setup with mpc, and screenies plz!


HEY now... i can only do soooo much :beer: ... naw plan on a tutorial on MCP + FFDSHOW + PUREVIDEO / other audio and video codecs soon...

[Phrenetical]

Actually im sort of surprised you guys didnt know about MPC, iv been using it for a couple years now, and since ffdshow came out and the latest divx codec its been even better.

@ nd4spdbh2 : are you able to do a couple screens of picture quality through mpc and say your older setup?

Glad its working for you but bro ;)

[nd4spdbh2]

Actually im sort of surprised you guys didnt know about MPC, iv been using it for a couple years now, and since ffdshow came out and the latest divx codec its been even better.

@ nd4spdbh2 : are you able to do a couple screens of picture quality through mpc and say your older setup?

Glad its working for you but bro ;)


im having trouble taking screenies.... i either get a black image or i can "see" the video through the pasted print screen image... i kno this has to do with overlays and what not but i cant figure it out... but i can tell you right now i dont need screenies to see the difference its that much...

[LandShark]

afaik, you can not take a video screen shot via overlay. you'll have to use WMV7/9 (can choose that from ffdshows) in order to take a video screen shot.

[Phrenetical]

if its to much trouble forget it, just a whim.

[soulrider4ever]

if its to much trouble forget it, just a whim.


Yea just get cracking on those how to's ;)

[nd4spdbh2]

afaik, you can not take a video screen shot via overlay. you'll have to use WMV7/9 (can choose that from ffdshows) in order to take a video screen shot.


where in ffdshow can i change it from overlay to VRM7/9.... btw what is the difference?

ill get to the how to when i have the time.

[Phrenetical]

im not sure where in ffdshow you change that but MPC has those options, i believe they are under dvd playback. Definitely in there but.


Question: Do i need to have PUREVIDEO or AVIVO to do DVD sharpening, noise removal, and scaling with ffdshow, or can i do it straight from MPC using ffdshow? Im assuming pV and Avivo are for other things, correct?

[nd4spdbh2]

im not sure where in ffdshow you change that but MPC has those options, i believe they are under dvd playback. Definitely in there but.


Question: Do i need to have PUREVIDEO or AVIVO to do DVD sharpening, noise removal, and scaling with ffdshow, or can i do it straight from MPC using ffdshow? Im assuming pV and Avivo are for other things, correct?

purevideo is used for its codecs in my case... audio and video... pretty much this is how i have under stood how everything works...

purevideo video codec take the raw files from the dvd and make them into images so to say... ffdshow is an intermitant process that lies between purevideo (or any other video codec for that matter) and the player you are using... in this case MPC..

so the standard images purevideo produces pass through ffdshow, which upscales, gets rid of noise, sharpens ... and then MPC is the viewing window for the new images...

so inother words you do not need purevideo or AVIVO with ffdshow... purevideo / AVIVO just produce the images that ffdshow "upgrades"

in my case i use purevideo because i have found that the purevideo codecs produce the best "standard" image off my nvidia card... ffdshow just makes it even better... actually a BUTLOAD better

and MAN running in VRM9 mode its like a slideshow, compared to standard overlay... why is this?

[LandShark]

purevideo is used for its codecs in my case... audio and video... pretty much this is how i have under stood how everything works...

purevideo video codec take the raw files from the dvd and make them into images so to say... ffdshow is an intermitant process that lies between purevideo (or any other video codec for that matter) and the player you are using... in this case MPC..

so the standard images purevideo produces pass through ffdshow, which upscales, gets rid of noise, sharpens ... and then MPC is the viewing window for the new images...

so inother words you do not need purevideo or AVIVO with ffdshow... purevideo / AVIVO just produce the images that ffdshow "upgrades"

in my case i use purevideo because i have found that the purevideo codecs produce the best "standard" image off my nvidia card... ffdshow just makes it even better... actually a BUTLOAD better

and MAN running in VRM9 mode its like a slideshow, compared to standard overlay... why is this?
VRM9 should produce even better color, picture quality, and things like tranparent menu, etc. than the old overlay. however, it will also use a lot more processing power too. so, for most people, VRM is mainly just for use to take screen shot. my old machine, 3.2e, can only use overlay in SD channel. if i use 3d accelerate (VRM7/9), it will turn to slide show. now my new htpc (3.1ghz conroe) I have no problem to turn on 3d accelerated transparent menu and stuffs in SD channel; however, in HD channel, video is quite shutter tho.... so I use overlay too.

[Phrenetical]

hmmm i followed the tutorial posted above for ffdshow and mpc, but now it slideshows and i cant play dvd's at all, no picture either just lines, and AVI's totally screw up also now.

i did everything the tutorial said, does anyone have any ideas?

[Phrenetical]

well i tried a bunch of settings couldnt get resizing to work at all, even at 1.5, 2 it slideshows, at resize by 3 (as tutorial suggests) it crashes.

so im using deinterlacing, blur & NR with resizing off cause i couldnt get it to work.

even with these settings tuned like in tutorial the colours are a heck of a lot sharper and there is definently less noise on AVI's and generally better picture quality.

i highly suggest you all start using ffdshow + MPC, its an easy setup and your dvd will lokk alot better. I also noted between 35% - 46% cpu usage for playing dvds now, thats up from about 20 - 30%, thank god for hyperthreading :beer:


i was using MPC + ffdshow before but not for DVD's and not as tweaked as it is now, definently worth it imho!

[nd4spdbh2]

ill get a how to up... soon by like saturday. im still messing with settings and whatnot .

[Phrenetical]

im actually pretty happy with how clear avi's r now, the lack of noise on many of the old school cartoons i have as avi's is very pleasing.

many of them are actually encoded fairly badly or with low encoding bandwidth, but ffdshow seems to improve them heaps.


looking forward to your tut

[jivetrky]

OK here is the dealio, currently i have my HDTV hooked to my HTPC (specs below) via a HDMI cable that connects to the PC via a HDMI to DVI converter...

SPECS
P4 2.8C
Gigabyte mobo
6600gt AGP
512mb of ram
80gb seagate hd...

So the question is the best picture possible... Now i currently use Windows Media Player 10 along with Nvidias Purevideo decoder platnium but its really weird everynow and then the brightness will just change for a sec then change back and gets REALLY annoying... what could cause this? i know its something to do with the software because windvd 6 does not do this nor does a standalong dvd player...

So what is the BEST way to play a dvd on a computer?

if i could make windows media player play dvd's as easily as windvd 6 and without the brighness changes that would be aswome.


I've had this same issue with WMP and playing a DVD. I use VLC to play DVD's and the brightness issue is gone. Not sure what the deal is with WMP and the brightness thing. But it seems to be specific to WMP, or the codec it uses.

[IAmMoen]

as am I. Subscribed :)

[nd4spdbh2]

problem is i cant take screenshots cus i cant run in anything else becides overlay mode cus as it is with a 2.8C and my current settings (upscaling the dvd from 720x480 to 1840x1036 is VERY cpu intensive) we are looking at right about 85% usage... i put the movie in VRM9 and its like a slide show... so i need to figure out how to take screenies in overlay mod if possible...

[Phrenetical]

the HTPC in my sig definently cant do upscaling to 1680*1050 not even avi's

does upscaling use just the CPU or does it rely on GPU?

[nd4spdbh2]

the HTPC in my sig definently cant do upscaling to 1680*1050 not even avi's

does upscaling use just the CPU or does it rely on GPU?


oh its all CPU power... if i dont upscale i get about 20% usage... @ 1440x960 it jumps to 70... and at 1840x1036 its pretty much taxing out my 2.8ghz P4 @ 85-90% usage.

[Phrenetical]

well im using a 3.0 @ 3.15 512mb ram in dual channel, fsb is > 800, you would think comparitively to your system mine could do 1680*1050.

Maybe im doing something wrong.

[nd4spdbh2]

well im using a 3.0 @ 3.15 512mb ram in dual channel, fsb is > 800, you would think comparitively to your system mine could do 1680*1050.

Maybe im doing something wrong.


should be able to... although theres soo many settings in ffdshow the only way to really tell would be to use the same exact settings as i am... but it should be able to scale that high

My HTPC setup is
P4 2.8C @ 2.8ghz
2x256 in dual channel
6600gt...

[Phrenetical]

well yeah theoretically we should be able to do the same thing, are you able to screenshot the setting page for resizing for me?

and thats also why i asked if GPU has a hand in it, because 6600GT is much better then this old radeon 9000, but if its cpu only, we should be able to do the same thing.

[nd4spdbh2]

well yeah theoretically we should be able to do the same thing, are you able to screenshot the setting page for resizing for me?

and thats also why i asked if GPU has a hand in it, because 6600GT is much better then this old radeon 9000, but if its cpu only, we should be able to do the same thing.

ya i havnt had time today to mess with the htpc but ill get that how to up with screenies up the yin yang for yall soon.

[nd4spdbh2]

ok well i found a way to take scrennies of dvds playing back in overlay mode... THANKS TO FRAPS... and ill be puttin together my how to over the weekend.

[nd4spdbh2]

ugg i really need some more cpu power for my htpc... my 2.8 is ehh its touch and go it can barly resize twice the time of the dvd (1440x960 or...1382400 pixles...) my e6600 @ 3ghz can resize 5 times the size of the dvd 3200x2400 :drool: or 555% more pixels than 2x that my htpc can do... and it will do that 5x resize at about 65% usage.... rrr i dont kno what to do... i reallly dont wanna drop money on ANOTHER mobo and processor but its looking like i may... a Frys E6300 and ECS mobo that i can use my ddr pc3200 and AGP gfx card in is lookin good.

[Mr. Roboto]

I'll be awaiting your guide

[nd4spdbh2]

I'll be awaiting your guide


lol lots are... i just gotta get on it hopfully ill have some time tommorrow

[LandShark]

ugg i really need some more cpu power for my htpc... my 2.8 is ehh its touch and go it can barly resize twice the time of the dvd (1440x960 or...1382400 pixles...) my e6600 @ 3ghz can resize 5 times the size of the dvd 3200x2400 :drool: or 555% more pixels than 2x that my htpc can do... and it will do that 5x resize at about 65% usage.... rrr i dont kno what to do... i reallly dont wanna drop money on ANOTHER mobo and processor but its looking like i may... a Frys E6300 and ECS mobo that i can use my ddr pc3200 and AGP gfx card in is lookin good.
lol.... told you ;)

[nd4spdbh2]

ya but i can get it to where the 2.8 runs it fine.

[nd4spdbh2]

i am very sorry i have not been able to get the tutorial on ffdshow up... i have been sick and simester finals are upon me so its been quite hectic... ill try my best to put aside some time shortly to get aworkin on the tutorial.

[soulrider4ever]

Well using the links you've provided, I was also able to setup a basic FFDshow with purevideo (it's easier than you'd think).

I've come to the conclusion that older DVD's play better in MPC w/ ffdshow&purevideo, while newer DVD's that are "mastered in high definition" actually look worse in MPC, while in PowerDVD it's much better IMO.

For IE - X-files season 1 on DVD, in PowerDVD it looks like crap and I get ghost images. In MPC, it takes the bluriness out and sharpens and makes the picture look like a newer DVD quality.

Then I play 24 - Season 2 in MPC and theirs an ass load more noise on certain background images, the people look sharp and what not, but it isn't enough to justify all of the background noise that appears. In PowerDVD, its 100% perfect with hardware acceleration enabled.

So, for now, I've got both installed and whenever I play an older quality DVD, its MPC and newer stuff gets PowerDVD.

[frontrunner57]

is the guide getting ready?
any progress?

[nd4spdbh2]

is the guide getting ready?
any progress?
its comming.. ima probbaly end up buying a E4300 and Ecs mobo combo today at frys cus a p4 2.8c is a lil to slow to fully scale the dvd up to 1920x1080