Multimedia myths exposed.

[Malpine Walis]

OK, this is going to be a round-up of some of the common (or even less common) myths that are out there so that people can learn what to avoid. Let's face it, home theater can be a very expensive hobby for some of us and it would be best if we could avoid some of the common traps that are out there.

Don't get me wrong, if you want a thousand dollar TV or in this case a monitor as the tuner will be a separate component, feel free to go out and buy one. Just remember that the ones that they do not sell at that price today will be selling for $289.95 in three or four years simply because they do not want to pay someone to haul them off to a landfill.

So with that in mind, let's start this list. Post away and see if we can work together to save some money.

You do not need monster brand cables.

Sure, for certain types of signals certain types of cabling are more appropriate. However, monster brand costs twice as much while not giving you twice as much signal. Often times, there are perfectly good alternatives out there which are cheaper by a good margin. For example, I have two sets of headphones at home. One is a set of full sized cans with active noise reduction that cost me $50.00. The other are some regular walkman style headphones that I got for $10.00 on sale at radio shack. Care to guess which set actually has the best low end? You might be surprised at the answer (the cheap ones).

No, you do not need gold plated connectors.

Sure, they look nice but you are going to plug them in where they will not be seen. And while gold is more electrically conductive than other metals, the wires inside the dielectric are still copper. Does anyone really think that the signal is somehow going to go through three feet of copper and then be magically up-converted at the cable end by a bit of gold foil that is just thick enough to notice?

Green magic marker does not make CDs sound better.

This one has been floating around since CDs first came out and you would think that after all this time, people would have learned but it still rears it's ugly head from time to time. It is really only a joke that some of the more experienced people foisted off on some anonymous noob twenty-five years ago but in reality, there is just no science behind the idea. It is bunk. However, it is bunk that somehow took hold and led a few manufacturers to label some green magic markers as being specially prepared for use on CDs and selling them to the unwary for $25.00 each. They are the exact same magic markers that you can buy for $4.00 a dozen at Staples or Office Max.

You cannot restore data to greater fidelity than the source file.

Any device the promises this amazing feat is a gimmick to sell hardware and does not really work as advertised. This is nowhere more true than with lossy compression formats such as MP3. When the data is gone it is gone. As well to try to restore the stereo channel data after a file has been converted to mono (not that nay people do that but even so...). When the data is gone it is gone. Then too, even with formats such as FLAC the same would apply as you cannot just add data that is not to be found in the source.

While we are on this point, it also bears noting that “studio quality” is a mini myth in itself. Little enough music is recorded in a single take for that to even be possible. Most of what you see is recorded over time in a multi-session environment and layered by the recording engineers in post production. Thus you cannot make what does not really exist.

Oxygen free cable is about fake prestige. Not about superior performance.

While it is true that copper with quite a lot of oxygen would make for poor wiring (thus no company would ever intentionally produce “enhanced oxygen wire”), removing the little bit of oxygen that will occur in nature does not actually improve electrical conductivity. For brevity, I will skip the physics lesson but even if you did have high oxygen content, it would not affect the electrical properties of copper sufficiently to make a noticeable difference.

You do not need the latest and greatest of hardware.

One does not need to be a rocket scientist to know that the more capable hardware will do more stuff. However, if you are looking to save some money, you can get a perfectly acceptable build with less expensive components.

Alternatively, you can get a build from older components that you want to reuse to save even more money. Obviously, the lower your processor speed the more likely you are to find something that is just not up to what you wanted to do. However, it happens that there are some people who are using 500 MHz processors and getting decent if minimal results.

There is no such thing as digital wire/cable.

There is such a thing as wire/cable and manufacturers will, on request, provide a spec sheet for anything that they make. Such spec sheets will include data on known physical properties of the product such as wire gage, dielectric constant and isolation at different frequencies. However, digital readiness is not a property of wire/cable and no spec sheet will mention the matter.

One property that does bear consideration is the “bend radius” of different types of coax cable. Basically, that would be how tightly you can bend a loop of such cable without causing the shielding to “open up”. Exceeding this specification can cause spurious signals to get into your signal path. Apart from that, all products are basically similar.

Joint Stereo is neither good nor bad.

As always, the devil is in the details and there is no exception here. Joint stereo is one name for a few different coding schemes ands they all have their uses. They also have some poor implementations and some better implementations.

Intensity coding is a form of lossy compression that should be used when ripping to low bit rates and the consequently smaller file sizes that they generate. Matrix coding has much less loss of data but results in larger files so is better for intermediate bit rates. Two channel stereo is still probably better when ripping at the highest bit rates as that tends to preserve the original data on a CD.

Oddly enough, if you are recording from vinyl (which some audiophiles still insist it the best form of recording as it is the original analog stream), there is really nothing to be gained by the use of a full stereo rip as the stereo image is made with Matrix coding anyway. The Sum (mid) channel is recorded horizontally in the groove and the difference (side) channel is recorded vertically in the same groove.

[RedDragonXXX]

Yep, very true about monster cables but the sad thing is that most of the local stores only sell Monster or Belkin cables which are EXTREMELY expensive.

I either buy my online or at Wallmart. I got a great deal on a 6' HDMI to DVI Pannasonic cable at Wallmart for only $15. Some people might not know this so I'll just throw it out there. BB and Circuit City also sell used cable that are either returned or been opened. They are usually located somewhere in the back of the store or they have a table with all stuff that is reduced in price. I bough two Monster 6' optical cables that someone returned for only $10 each. So if you are looking to buy something it doesn't hurt to look and ask around.

[Shell]

These are not myths, these are marketing scams that take advantage of... fools.
I buy high-grade shielded cables from commercial suppliers, they're cheaper(uglier) and better then what BB or worstbuy ever has to offer... unless there's a decent sale.

Myth: HDMI is better then DVI in video quality. (according to every futureshop employee I've ever met)
HDMI is all-in-one and is a lot newer then DVI... but it's not any better. Okay?

[nd4spdbh2]

These are not myths, these are marketing scams that take advantage of... fools.
I buy high-grade shielded cables from commercial suppliers, they're cheaper(uglier) and better then what BB or worstbuy ever has to offer... unless there's a decent sale.

Myth: HDMI is better then DVI in video quality. (according to every futureshop employee I've ever met)
HDMI is all-in-one and is a lot newer then DVI... but it's not as good. Okay?


SO VERY true about the cables... monster and thoes things are a JOKE... if i wanted crazy quality rca cables i would make my own... but most of the time i just buy like frys GQ brand... just and thick and shielded (heck some have gold connectors) for like 1/4th the price....

And btw HDMI is DVI.... its the same its just that HDMI has 2 more pins for digital audio. this is why you can get a simple lil converter to hook a HDTV up to a pc.

[Shell]

And btw HDMI is DVI.... its the same its just that HDMI has 2 more pins for digital audio. this is why you can get a simple lil converter to hook a HDTV up to a pc.
True.

But have you seen how crappy the shielding is on an HDMI cable of the same price? I paid $20 for my DVI cable and it has copper shielding and 2 RF chokes. Every HDMI cable I found of the same price and length was just plastic and the digital audio line just adds to interfere.

Not really a noticeable problem, but over a distance travelling past several transformers at any resolution over 1920x1080... it is annoying if you have fast eyes... and my sub-woofer makes a feint hum with HDMI without good shielding.

Edited #3 for large error.

[silent bob]

I will say hdmi is a nice cable as opposed to Svideo or god forbid RCA 's I did noticve a huge difference going from teh Svideo to HDMI
now I just need to add a PC to my HT

[grumperfish]

I've got a couple:

"Restoring" a recording 'beyond studio quality' is impossible. These type of devices are gimmicks. (http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=209&subcategory=668&product=15913)

At the risk of starting a war, while the quality of audio equipment can sometimes be judged by its price, BOSE is not a good example of this for reasons I cannot even begin to detail here. Also, don't go for a 5.1 Koss set when a good-quality stereo receiver and a couple bookshelf speakers may cost around the same and sound much, much better. My friend recently fell in the "5.1" trap and got himself conned out of his money for inferior audio setups. I see this happen often, unfortunately. Just because the blaring setup you heard at best buy sounded "good" to you doesn't mean that it is, especially if it's not close to a comparable setup to test.

[nd4spdbh2]

LOL ya me and my dad went to look at bose for our Home Theater setup... it was a joke they had these tiny ass speakers and a sub... i dont think the guy realized how big of a room we have lol... and we wanted good surround sound not tinny junk.

[PhysX]

Green magic marker does not make CDs sound better.

This one has been floating around since CDs first came out and you would think that after all this time, people would have learned but it still rears it's ugly head from time to time. It is really only a joke that some of the more experienced people foisted off on some anonymous noob twenty-five years ago but in reality, there is just no science behind the idea. It is bunk. However, it is bunk that somehow took hold and led a few manufacturers to label some green magic markers as being specially prepared for use on CDs and selling them to the unwary for $25.00 each. They are the exact same magic markers that you can buy for $4.00 a dozen at Staples or Office Max.

No, but if the CD is scratched and skips it will no longer skip if you go over it with the highlighter .

[Malpine Walis]

No, but if the CD is scratched and skips it will no longer skip if you go over it with the highlighter .

Ah, that I had not heard. I will have to try it the next time I mess up a CD. Even so, the myth of the green magic marker as stated normally does not have you putting the marker ink on the playing surface but rather running it around the edge. Also, as I noted above, there is no such thing as a special CD marker. Remember the old adage "A fool and his money are soon parted". dont let that happen to you.

Also grumperfish, Part of yours has been added to the top post.

[PhysX]

Yeah only if the plastic on the bottom is scrapped, if they aluminum is chipped off obviously you can save that :)

[Vipasnipa]

I think another myth ingrained into the mind of the mass-consumer is that Bose = Quality.

[David]

Unless I am mistaken, gold contacts do not conduct electricity as well as copper, they simply last longer and look nicer.

I'll check on this though.

EDIT:

Source: Wikipedia.
Copper Electrical resistivity (20 °C) 16.78 nΩ·m
Gold Electrical resistivity (20 °C) 22.14 nΩ·m

So Copper has a resistance of 16.78 nanoohms per metre, which is ~75% of that of Gold. Or am I reading these figures wrong?


EDIT2:

Stuck :D

Can we keep this updated?

[hyperasus]

I think everyone here has the wrong idea about gold plated connectors. The reason for gold connectors is NOT because gold conducts electricity better than copper. It is because gold not only has good conductivity, but it is also very inert and does not corrode over time, thus keeping the connection perfect for a very very long time. It is in fact a very good idea to use gold plated connectors. Once copper has been corroded even a tiny bit then it makes a much worse connection than gold. Personally I think gold plated connectors have been completely miss represented here and should be removed from the sticky.

[MVC]

I agree with hyperasus on the gold plated contacts. I've got some gold plated Monster Cable RCA cables I bought about 25 years ago (my son's 22 and we hadn't even though of him so at least 23 years ago) and they look (and work) as good now as they did then and I've never had to clean them. But, I've also got some cables with stainless steel (nickel plated?) connectors that look almost at good so I doubt the gold is actually necessary.

FWIW, just about all of the cables I've bought recently (last few years) have been the "standard" grade ones from Monoprice and I've been very pleased with all of them.

Edit: Rereading my post I had another thought. I've had the same RCA cables in use for 25 years which means the technology didn't change all that much. Whatever I paid for them, spread over 25 years, probably isn't all that much, so over the long view they weren't all that expensive. But, what's the chance that 25 years from now we'll still be able to use the same DVI or HDMI cable we'll buy today? If it's low, then that's still one more reason to not spend a lot of money on cables today.

[Adragontattoo]

you can polish the scratches out of a cd if you are willing to take the chance that you might screw up. I have done it repeatedly on different cd's.

Gold plated Contacts ARE good for preventing Corrosion BUT they are sold under the pretense that they will improve the signal transfer. If they were sold with the statement that corrosion is bad and giold prevents it, I wouldnt object but the pretense is wrong.

Oxygen free copper is another item put on labels to markup prices that I love.

[David]

We have an edit button for a reason ;)

[Adragontattoo]

Sorry David (wanders off ashamed)

[MVC]

Oxygen free copper is another item put on labels to markup prices that I love.

I'd never heard of "oxygen free copper" before so I Googled it. I went to the first "real" site and found the following quote. The last line is priceless :D
Did you know that high-oxygen-content copper drawn into a wire becomes brittle? Oxygen has the effect of reducing the ductility of the material because it attracts hydrogen. The two form water and that creates bubbles near the surface. For this reason, most copper wire is drawn from stock that has low oxygen content.

Let's say you are in a grocery, shopping for ketchup. You see two brands. Brand A is labeled "Great Tasting!". Brand B is labeled "Contains NO Nuclear Waste". What's your choice?

Labeling commercially available copper wire "oxygen free" is like labeling ketchup "NO Nuclear Waste". Duh!
The site is here (http://www.aqdi.com/goldcon.htm).

[Malpine Walis]

OK, oxygen free copper has been added.

For the record, it is also quite inaccurate to think of electrical current as being about little bullets called electrons zipping about. Electrons mutually repel each other and in metals, the free electrons like to form what is known as an electron gas of uniform density. An electrical current is a disturbance in that density that propagates through the metal as a wave. Because oxygen is a group 16 element, it has six valence electron and therefore does not really participate in the process of conduction.

Also, thanks for the thread glue David.

[nvidiaOCmaster]

What about quad shielded wire? Does the "Quad Shielded" Mean sh*t?

[Malpine Walis]

Well, it is certainly not a bad product for the use for which it is intended. Neither is it automatically good for other uses. Look at it this way:

The Belden corporation makes perhaps a hundred thousand miles of the stuff each year. In the same time, perhaps the Monster company is buying a hundred miles of the stuff to cut into six foot lengths to sell to the “financially overburdened” for twice what they paid for the stuff. So who is buying all the rest of the product?

Well, first it goes on huge spools that may hold perhaps ten miles. If you have ever been on the highway and seen a full flatbed semi hauler filled with only four spools of wire, that may be what you were seeing going down the road. Those are sent to large regional distributors (from whom Monster buys the bit that they are good for). Then the bulk of the stuff goes out to large cable TV companies who may have to rewire a whole county as a single project.

Now the cable companies need the stuff because they are in the business of sending 300+ channels of content to you (more of it in HD every day) from a local distribution point that may be many miles away. They also have the task of sending out all the high speed internet connectivity to you and everyone in your immediate area. It is not unusual for them to run a hundred houses off of a single piece of wire. So you can see how they need to have very good wire to do all of that work.

If you really want to, I would not presume to stop you but think for a minute about what you are doing and why you are doing it. If you get Belden's spec sheet on the stuff and you decide for yourself that it really would be good to use cable rated for almost no measurable loss at 500 MHz, then I am fine with that even though your cable box may be transmitting to your TV on channel 3. For reference, in the countries that use the NTSC standard (North America, Northwestern South America, Japan and parts of Southeast Asia) channel 3 is only 64Hz wide (composite (RCA/RGB) cables have similar bandwidth but because of the technical signal difference I will go that another time).

On the other hand, if you are looking at the package in some electronics store and seeing the words “blacker blacks” “more vivid colors” or something similar, that my friend is marketing speak designed to lure you in to a purchase that is probably going to cost you money that you could have spent on lunch. Personally, I would rather have the Italian combo.

[Andyman902042]

myth: encoding in joint stereo is worse than regular stereo

it's somewhat ironic that one of the best explanations of JS that I've come across is in the documentation for the Xing encoder. ( Xing Guide in .pdf format) Ironic? Well, should you be unaware, the Xing mp3 encoder is widely considered to be the worst available, but clearly, they have a good understanding of what they're trying to do!

"Don't confuse Joint Stereo (Stereo mode 1) with the Joint Stereo coding used for MPEG layer 2 encoding - it is not the same. Joint Stereo (Stereo mode 1) encoding for MPEG layer3 allows the XingMP3 Encoder to use additional methods of encoding, specifically - MS Stereo (Middle/Side Stereo), and for lower bitrates only, Intensity Stereo, in addition to the Independent Channel coding used for Stereo mode 0. MS Stereo uses one channel to encode information that is identical on the left and right channels and the other channel to encode the differences between the two channels. Intensity Stereo encodes only bits that are perceived to be important to the stereophonic image. The XingMP3 Encoder uses Intensity Stereo only in low bitrate files, (96kbps or less) where file size is critical to the user. In Joint Stereo (Stereo mode 1), the encoder dynamically (frame by frame) chooses the method of encoding that produces the best quality for each individual frame. Dynamic encoding improves compression efficiency which results in a higher quality file using less bits. Stereo mode 0 encodes the left and right channels independently. The total bitrate remains constant, but the split between the channels can vary. The XingMP3 Encoder uses this flexibility to improve quality by allocating more bits to the channel with the more dynamic signal. For MPEG layer 3 encoding, Stereo mode 0 limits the encoder to only one method of encoding - Independent Channels. Because Stereo mode 0 is limited to one method of encoding, Joint Stereo (Stereo mode 1) in most cases produces higher quality. In the exceptions, the Stereo mode 0 quality will be essentially equivalent to Joint Stereo (Stereo mode 1)."

source:http://harmsy.freeuk.com/mostync/

[Uqdroma]

I think everyone here has the wrong idea about gold plated connectors. The reason for gold connectors is NOT because gold conducts electricity better than copper. It is because gold not only has good conductivity, but it is also very inert and does not corrode over time, thus keeping the connection perfect for a very very long time. It is in fact a very good idea to use gold plated connectors. Once copper has been corroded even a tiny bit then it makes a much worse connection than gold. Personally I think gold plated connectors have been completely miss represented here and should be removed from the sticky.

Well stated. :clap: This person must also live in South FL, or any other place with 90-100% humidity plus salty air 11-12 months out of the year. You should see what my speaker wires look like after a year or so. :beer:

*EDIT* I also wanted to just say that I never have had a salesperson sell me on the performance. I've always just assumed the gold connectors were for anti-corrosion.

[MVC]

myth: encoding in joint stereo is worse than regular stereo
I don't think joint stereo was initially knocked because of any inherent flaws in the sound quality it can produce but rather because the early implementations were pitiful. At the same time, the early MP3 players had a lot of trouble rendering the audio stream so if you tried to play a joint stereo MP3 file what you got was a lot of "gaps" (for lack of a better term). Thus, anyone who wanted a decent rip of a CD avoided joint stereo like the plague. And, once something is "branded" as junk it's really hard to remove that label.

I still prefer true stereo, though at this point that's as much out of habit as anything else--my kids have given me plenty of joint stereo recordings that work just fine on current hardware/software. But, if I was really concerned about the "quality" of a recording I think I'd still opt for true stereo at a higher bit rate than for joint stereo at a lower bit rate since I'm not that concerned with saving a little space. Joint stereo can't produce better sound than true stereo, it can only retain more of what it judges important for given bit rate.

[The_Jizzler]

fyi different types of shielding in audio interconnects may have different affects on the signal. i know foil shields is a no-no in audio. ideally thered be no shield or insulator. simply air between the wires

[hyperasus]

i know foil shields is a no-no in audio

I did not know this. I always asumed foil to be a good thing.....more sheilding.

[MVC]

*EDIT* I also wanted to just say that I never have had a salesperson sell me on the performance. I've always just assumed the gold connectors were for anti-corrosion.
That's because you live where the truth actually works better than a lie :D but in places with little or no humidity sales critters usually opt for the "performance" line because corrosion isn't really a big issue with their customers. One other thing to note with the gold connectors, in order for them to be effective you need gold on both sides of the connection. If what you're hooking up doesn't have gold connectors (and you aren't going to replace the nickel ones) buying cables with gold connectors is a waste of money because you'll still get corrosion.

[The_Jizzler]

I did not know this. I always asumed foil to be a good thing.....more sheilding.

well, thats kinda my point. shielding=bad for audio signals. i mean its good if you got some weird ground problems or alot of efi, but if youve taken more than a few minutes to set up your stereo it shouldnt be a problem. excellent audio connects involve little more than a few strands of wire, some tape and some rca plugs. dont believe the hype. http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1866/021998wirere4.jpg

[Malpine Walis]

myth: encoding in joint stereo is worse than regular stereo

Sorry for taking so long to add this one to the top but I found your post a bit confusing and I wanted to read up on the matter a bit more. However, it has now been added at the top.

I think everyone here has the wrong idea about gold plated connectors. The reason for gold connectors is NOT because gold conducts electricity better than copper. It is because gold not only has good conductivity, but it is also very inert and does not corrode over time, thus keeping the connection perfect for a very very long time. It is in fact a very good idea to use gold plated connectors. Once copper has been corroded even a tiny bit then it makes a much worse connection than gold. Personally I think gold plated connectors have been completely miss represented here and should be removed from the sticky.

You are of course correct that there are very few things that can degrade gold. Industrial grade acids that you should not be playing with are on the list but then you would never see them in an HTPC application anyway.

However, I am going to leave it on the list for now. As I said at the top of the thread, I would never dream of telling anyone what they clearly must buy, rather I would like to protect them from the nonsense that is out there. The fact is that there is a myth that gold is superior based on sound quality and it tends to be stated by people who work at stores that pay on commission. Not exactly a sterling motive for increasing the price that the customer pays.

Also, as far as the environment goes, I live a half mile from the Atlantic ocean myself and I use stainless steel connectors. I have very little issue with corrosion as a factor. I in fact have some cables that are going on 20 years old and they still look fairly new. If I left them out in the rain, that would be a different story but as with the acids and gold, who is ever going to do that?

[[Corporal Dan]]

Some things I have not seen mentioned....

Gold connectors and plain jacks, or vice-versa are worse that no gold plating at all! Galvanic corrosion (due to dissimilar metal contact) will set in and eventually degrade the connection.... over a period of 20-30 years at which point you just disconnect and reconnect the cable to scrape off the micron-thin layer of oxidation. and it'll work good as new.

Copper is an excellent conductor....

but Pb-Sn, aka lead-tin alloy, aka solder is not. This is the #1 weak point of ANY cable. Crimped connections are not that much better, but a good crimp job will be much better than a sloppy solder job.

Regarding shielding, it's only really an issue for long runs.... ie 50 feet and up.





I am guilty in the cable department.

I recently spent a couple of hundred bucks in total to upgrade the cabling in all my setups.

1) A monster cable kit.... $30 Cdn on sale.
6 lengths of speaker wire (90 feet total) with crimped connectors, and one of their topline s-vid cables.

Verdict: Pretty good deal. Better than the dollar store speaker cable I was using. Who knows what the MSRP was..

2) 10X 6ft shielded dual-RCA cables, $cdn 7 each
Nice and flexible. Good soldering at the connectors. Good shielding. Replaced all the cheapie unshielded throwaway cables I had accumulated over the years that came with my equipment.

Verdict: OK buy. No discernible difference, obviously.

3) 3X RG-59U/75 Ohm RCA composite cable.... 9$ Cdn total
Using this as a component cable. Cheap connectors, stiff cable.... But it works great!

Verdict: SWEET DEAL!

4) 2x Acoustic Reasearch master Series, 12-foot Component cables... 40 bucks CDN for both

Ferrite bead/filter on each cable. Super-nice connectors. Good quality cable. Excellent soldering/assembly.... But completely unnecesary.

I was going to buy Cheapo RCA-brand, 6-foot component cables for 15 bucks a pop, but they sold out. If you judge by the price difference, these are a good deal.

But I can notice NO difference. At all. NONE. And I was usiing the crappiest cables on the planet (ones that came with the DVD-recorder) before.

I feel stupid.

Verdict: Compared to the MSRP of $USD 299.99 X2, an amazing deal at $cdn 80 for both. But I still feel I overpaid and was 'had'
=-=-=-=-




What people don't get is that for typical home theater runs, 6-25 feet max, cabling has very little effect.

There's:
free cabling (the stuff that comes with your gear)
"good cabling" (electronics supplier house brand, other cheapo brands or models)
there's "fancy cabling" (monster, etc),

...and there's crap cabling. I bought some ebay component cables. Very basic shielding, stiff cable jackets, awful out of round connectors, no strain relief/protection, and the sloppiest soldering you could ever imagine.... soldering done no doubt without flux (huge beads everywhere inside the connector). Out of 3 cables, TWO failed after reconnecting them 4 times...

With the fancy cables, you'll get GUARANTEED good quality. But if you know what to look for to avoid CRAP cabling, you can get the same quality for 1/4 or 1/6th the price.

Monster sucks not because their product is crap, but because it's overpriced and marketing-oriented.

[[Corporal Dan]]

copper drawn into a wire becomes brittle? Oxygen has the effect of reducing the ductility of the material because it attracts hydrogen. The two form water and that creates bubbles near the surface. For this reason, most copper wire is drawn from stock that has low oxygen content.

The site is here (http://www.aqdi.com/goldcon.htm).

Just so you're all aware, the above quote is utter bull****.

copper becomes brittle when drawn into a wire because you are essentially cold-working it. The same is true for any metal. The metal become much stiffer but loses ductility. This is reversed once the wire is shaped as desired by reheating the metal, allowing the grain structure to recrystallize, and most of the ductility is regained.

This is not even a factor for nonmechanical applications and has absolutely no bearing on conductivity.

[IAmMoen]

seeing as this thread is talking so much about cables and such I would just like to say that in my experience monoprice.com has the best prices on stuff like this. I got gold plated banana plugs just so I wouldnt have to mess with the little screw down thing on the back of my receiver and speakers regardless of its anticorrisive properties. Also got a 15' dvi to dvi 24 gauge (really thick, you would have to see it to believe it) for 20 bucks. And for bulk cable this place rocks.

I wonder if monoprice is looking for a new marketing guy? :)

[wnnbgwrrr]

This was a good education for typical consumer such as myself. I'm feeling smarter already.

[dipspit]

It's a shame this thread died, as there is some very valuable information in it. I'd just like to add, mainly as comic relief, as people who frequent this forum already know, "Vista ready" peripherals is about the biggest load of garbage I've ever encountered in my life.

[MongGrel]

I work for a high end Aerospace company, we have oxygen free copper in our stock room and have for years.

The electrical engineers and mechanical engineers in the last 8 years have never called for it to be used in any application we have made since I have been there in all that time, hence I'd say using it for a cable is a pretty moot point.

*shrug* take it for what its worth buying a cable using it would seem pretty much immaterial to me.

[Paco420]

For what it's worth, one benefit to buying monster cable is the lifetime warranty. just take to any store that sells monster cable and they will replace it no questions asked.

Just don't buy into the directional super cable BS they push.

[ryfox0276]

http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php?page=item&id=MCI2018M&extra=a%3A2%3A{i%3A0%3Bs%3A40%3A%2203823345592a403 b2f4a37a59384e7ab28f02be1%22%3Bi%3A1%3Bs%3A0%3A%22 %22%3B} (http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php?page=item&id=MCI2018M&extra=a%3A2%3A{i%3A0%3Bs%3A40%3A%2203823345592a403 b2f4a37a59384e7ab28f02be1%22%3Bi%3A1%3Bs%3A0%3A%22 %22%3B})
Dont know how well you can read the package, but after reading it i cracked up:D
But i just want to say that that is a rediculous price for what you get. Great place to buy cables.