Is this a possibility?

[bigggwilly]

So I thought I chipped my proccessor, so I bought a new one, and then I though I chipped that one... I felt really stupid. So I took the 2nd CPU back to the store trying to return it, and the guy tested it out. It worked fine! Now i'm trying to figure out why it doesn't work in my computer!?

The symptoms are:

1. CPU worked fine and dandy
2. I built a headsink... a fanless design...
3. I install the heatsink on the CPU, and try my computer...
4. I turns on, no beeps, no video 3-4 seconds later it turns off.
5. I examine the processor, and on teeeenny tiney corner is missing, MAYBE .2 of a mm at most.
6. I can't turn the comp back on until I reset the power supply.
7. Same with 2nd CPU.

Could this be because I don't have a CPU fan plugged in? Its not the CPU's fault (the 2nd one at least) because I saw it working in another comp. I can't see how it would be anything else, because I was very carefull not to damage the mobo with the screwdriver :D. when replacing the HS clip.

So whats the deal? I think it might be the fact that I dont' have a CPU fan plugged in, but I cannot find any reference to that problem on the net (for my mobo) or in the manual (for the mobo).

Any help is appreciated!

[c627627]

Power supply brand along with all othe components would go a long way in diagnosing your problem.

When it happened to me, it was an inexpensive power supply.

_____________________
2100+ AIUHB 0248 MPMW
256MB Crucial PC2100 + 2x 256MB Kingston (Hynix chip) PC2100 @ 6 3 3 2
[152] FSB x 15 = 2280 MHz @ 1.8 Vcore with memory frequency at 100% [152] @ 2.77 Vdimm
37(min) C to 46(max) C Winter ; 42(min) C to 50(max) C Summer
Epox 8RDA+
Thermalright SK-7 with variable speed 80x25mm YS-Tech FD1281259B-2F
BFG GeForce4 Ti4200 8X 128MB; Antec SX-835II case ; 350W Antec SmartPower SL350
Five 80x25mm Ultra Quiet 18CFM Case Fans (NMB C3110KL-04W-B19)

[c627627]

Wait wait, what?
"Could this be because I don't have a CPU fan plugged in?"

You have no fan working on your CPU heatsink?

Expected average CPU life expectancy without a CPU fan: 2 seconds...
(well, lets' just say not long.)

[bigggwilly]

Right, I though that stuff was in my sig.... What sig, you ask? I asked the same Q.

Okay,
Chips are barton 2500s
Crappy no name 300W powersupply... worked fine before... no sparks or anything...
Mobo is a MSI k72nG-ILSR
I got some ram, and a hardrive, but that stuff never changed... and it worked fine before...

[c627627]

Back to the most important question, frynd:
You have no fan working on your CPU heatsink?

[bigggwilly]

You have no fan working on your CPU heatsink?


Well, kinda... its kinda complicated, but the heatsink works off the powersupply fan... its not very pretty, so thats why i've never talked about it, but if it works, i'll post some pics.

AND, i've had CPUs (1900XP) working with no fan for minutes at a time, and then work fine... just gets a little toasty... no problems though...

[c627627]

Wait a minute, do you or do you not have a spinning fan on your CPU heatsink? IF you do not, your CPU will overheat.

Also:
Using that cheap 300W power supply is like smoking day in day out in a fuel supply storage. It's just a question of time before you kill your CPU, mobo and hard drives...

Do not spend less than $32 on a power supply (exclamation point):
Click here, it's cheapest quality supply you'll find anywhere:
http://www.newegg.com/app/Viewproduct.asp?DEPA=1&submit=manufactory&catalog=58&manufactory=1919&description=&srchFor=FSP350-60BN

The only people who do not believe in the importance of power supply are the ones who still haven't had their equipment die on them, it's time to cross over, don't play Russian roulette with your computer system.

[bigggwilly]

Okay, for now, lets just say that the Powersupply isn't a problem....

[c627627]

:D OK. Good luck with that theory...

Back to the overheating problem, I'm guessing you have no temperature information from the time when you were running your CPU without a heatsink fan?

In my humble opinion, if the CPU is indeed dead, the possible cause is the CPU overheating due to inadequate cooling.

See if your BIOS has an auto shut down option to prevent your CPU overheatingg after it reaches critical temps.

Also, use temp display software like:
http://mbm.livewiredev.com/download.html

[c627627]

Be careful when installing the heatsink, and look for directions on how to apply thermal paste like:
http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_alumina_instructions.htm

[bigggwilly]

yes, that was also my main though, and I thought I just wasted $150 X 2 (canadian). BUT, I took the 2nd CPU back to the store, and the guy there tried it on his comp, and it worked fine.... Perplexing indeed...



Okay, so we know that the CPU is fine, the mobo should be fine, the CPU is adequatly cooled (you're going to have to trust me on this one :D) and *the powersupply is fine* :) but there is NO cpu fan....

PS, the only reason why i'm not just trying this out myself (my usual approach) is because i'm at work, and i'm trying to kill time 'till then end of the day when I can leave and try pluggin in a fan.

[c627627]

OK CPU works on another system but not on yours, right?

Remember, I'm not talking out of my behind, I had the same problem and
Originally posted by c627627
When it happened to me, it was an inexpensive power supply.


You'd be wise to consider that because even if it's not the source of your problem now, it almost certainly will be in the future because it happens all the time to other people with systems similar to yours.

[bigggwilly]

Okay, i will try switching the powersupply. As soon as I get home.

[onx]

why dont you just go buy a lil crappy hsf (thats rated for your cpu) test it, see if that fixes it, and then if it doesnt, return it :D that way at least you'll get that problem out of the way...

btw if you go and put in that old (xp1900?) back in the mobo will it work (now not before) also does your motehrboard support the new barton 2500+? remember its got a different cache and fsb...not just faster...I had a old mobo that wouldnt support anything past 2000+ even if it was at the same fsb.... (a soyo sy-k7v dragon plus with a kt266A)

[bigggwilly]

yeah, mobo supports the new chip.

I just asked the question to see if not having a CPU fan plugged in would cause the problem (aside from fryage). I can't really try anything right now beacuse my comp is not at work with me, but I fully intend to when I get home. I will keep you guys updated though.

Thanks for all the help.

So many posts in such little time... :D

[Spade]

c627627

Wait wait, what?
"Could this be because I don't have a CPU fan plugged in?"

You have no fan working on your CPU heatsink?

Expected average CPU life expectancy without a CPU fan: 2 seconds...
(well, lets' just say not long.)

hehehehehehehehehehehehehe

i think you should tell this to zalman, apparently they dont know
:P heh sorry! i couldnt resist, fanless = fine if you have enough metal and a good contact.. (preferrably copper or some well conducting metal too)

NO heatsink at all however = FRIED CPU

[c627627]

I actually had zalman in mind when I was writing that but the original poster was specifically saying he was running his CPU without the CPU fan being plugged in. I can't believe he didn't fry his chip...

[bigggwilly]

c627627,

You can have no fan on just a normal heatsink and it won't fry for at least 5 mins... The heatsink can absorb quite a lot of heat from the CPU, even if it doesn't discharge it efficiently. It takes a lot of energy to heat a chunk of metal to 90C or higher...

[Stax10]

When i installed my water cooled cpu heat sink (no fan), i had the same problem. The system would try and boot, but then turn itself off.

This was because no heat sink fan was detected in the BIOS. It therefore classed this as a fan failure.

However, I turned the protection off so that the BIOS didn't keep killing the power!

[KfistoRok]

You woould probably have to have an incorrect mounted heat sink with no fan for it to cause the cpu get fried in seconds.

[c627627]

Maybe I'm confusing running CPU with heatsink+no fan and
http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=224193

Still, check this out:
I have an all copper SK-7. Great heat sink. I have an adjustable fan. I turn the fan knob down and just watch the temps go up, what would happen with no fan at all?

[Fallen Phoenix]

I bet Stax10 hit it right on the head, the BIOS will shut down the computer if it detects a fan failure (if that option is available and enabled). I'm curious and really wanna see if that's the problem. Also, you can have no fan on the heatsink and run just fine as long as you have some sort of fan moving enough air past the fins.

[wildfrogman]

You could just get a 3 pin fan or mod some little 486~pentium heatsink and fan combo for extra northbridge cooling. Then just plug that into the 3 pin fan header if you wanted to have rpm function on your northbridge fan. Though you should just find a 3 pin fan so you can get in the bios to change the settings. Just make sure the fan doesnt draw an insane amount of power, say like those delta 7k 60mm fans or it could burn out the motherboard traces.

[Stax10]

Yeah that'd work

If you cant disable the fan failure protection, then just plug a fan onto the cpu heat sink fan header. Problem solved:D

[macklin01]

I'm glad to see that the conversation has moved in the direction I was hoping it would. ;)

It could quite well be a protection feature. (If it detects no fan RPM, it won't boot.) If that's the case, consult the mobo manual to override it. It'll either be a BIOS setting or a jumper. If it's a jumper, it'll be an easy fix. Otherwise, get a spare fan lying around and just plug it in so that it gets an RPM signal and lets you into BIOS. Make your adjustments there.

(BTW, plugging a fan with RPM monitoring on it, even if you don't attach it to your HS, is a very quick way to test this theory of it being a lacking signal.)

Good luck! -- Paul

PS: I'm curious about your fanless setting. Your reasoning is sound, BTW: even in a fanless situation, the heatsink should be able to absorb a good amount of heat before it reaches its thermal capacity and totally trashes your CPU. I certainly wouldn't push it, though. ;)

[countermods]

ok will your board hold a 2400+ cause my old one didnt and it wouldntwork that great came on then shut off like yours is doing check to see if your board will hold your new chip

[Janissary]

Originally posted by macklin01
I'm glad to see that the conversation has moved in the direction I was hoping it would. ;)

It could quite well be a protection feature. (If it detects no fan RPM, it won't boot.) If that's the case, consult the mobo manual to override it. It'll either be a BIOS setting or a jumper. If it's a jumper, it'll be an easy fix. Otherwise, get a spare fan lying around and just plug it in so that it gets an RPM signal and lets you into BIOS. Make your adjustments there.

(BTW, plugging a fan with RPM monitoring on it, even if you don't attach it to your HS, is a very quick way to test this theory of it being a lacking signal.)



My MSI Mobo has this fan detection feature, and if I don't have a fan plugged, it will definately let you know that there is none, with it's annoying alarm and flashing message box. I could disable this feature through a BIOS setting.

Ok my Mobo is a different model though, so it still may be the heart of the problem I agree.:cool:

[oratel]

It is most DEFINATELY your motherboard that is not allowing you to boot. I had the EXACT same problem when I was testing my cpu on an Asus A7V8X-X mobo and neglected to plug the fan into the slot on the mobo. It starts up and one second later just shuts down. Hope this helps.

[bigggwilly]

Hmmm.....

Well, looks like i'm confused. I tried pluggin in a fan into the CPU fan header (with an RPM sensor) and it STILL doesn't work. Looks like i'll be buying a new powersupply today to see if thats the problem. This is really starting to irritate me. I hope the powersupply fixes it because I really don't want it to be my mobo's fault, its going to be a pain to replace.

I did check the manual to see if there was anything about needing a CPU fan, and I couldn't find anything. Its an MSI K7N2G-ILSR if anybody wants to know.

Now that i'm thinking about it, its likely not the PSU beceause if I take the CPU out, it boots fine (well, as it normally would with no CPU) without shutting down right away.

My progress was also impeaded WITHOUT ANY ELECTRICITY! So I can get back to it tonight at least.

Oh yeah, Thanks for all your time and help, by the way!

[macklin01]

Yes, I downloaded your manual PDF and couldn't find anything about it as well. As nice as a hypothesis it was, it doesn't seem to be the fan detection. Your test of hooking up another fan to the sensor confirmed that. Sorry. :(

I didn't see anything about jumpers being a problem on the FSB. It looks like it supports a 166 MHz FSB chip, so that's not a problem, esp. as you say it previously ran with that chip.

I'd strip down to just 1 stick ram, CPU, HS(F), and vid card and see if you can get it to post. Reseat / reconnect everything, including CPU and RAM, and add them back in one component at a time. See if you can find a baseline configuration that posts. There's got to be something that's preventing your post.

Good luck! -- Paul

[Aslan]

Originally posted by c627627

Still, check this out:
I have an all copper SK-7. Great heat sink. I have an adjustable fan. I turn the fan knob down and just watch the temps go up, what would happen with no fan at all?

:D

I learned this lesson quite well with my SK-7, forgot to plug in the fan, lucky for me I had the Motherboard set to auto-shutdown at a CPU temp of 70C.

[bigggwilly]

Well, it look like I learned a valuable lesson. Me = doofus

First i'd like to say thanks for all your help in diagnosing my problem, now all I need to do is learn how to take advice.

At least I was right about one thing... It wasn't the powersupply.

I think my last post was the day before the blackout, so I couldn't try using a CPU fan right away, and I went camping the following weekend, so I couldn't try anything then, either.

So anyway, back to the problem: I tried using a CPU fan plugged into the CPU fan header, and it did the same thing. I was pretty peeved. Since I was getting my wisdom teeth out the next day (yesterday) I decided that I would want my computer to work, so I would spare no expense figureing out the problem... So I bought a nice new strong 300w powersupply. I got it home, and decided that I might as well try changing the heatsink from mine to the new one that came with the new 2500 (i destroyed the old one to get the clip out for my heatsink). I clipped it on, and thought that I should try it before I changed the powersupply.... AND IT WORKED! Looks like i'm a moron and can't build a heatsink... So i was able to return the powersupply back to the store (un-opened) and it turns out that I didn't even damage my first CPU, the one with a corner visibly missing (which I think is crazy because after I thought I broke it, i was tossing it around like nothing, on my bed, and it didn't even get static shocked or anything). I was able to sell my perfectly good new 2500 to my friend for a good price (cheaper than new) because the store that I bought it at charges a 40% restocking fee for open CPU boxes... booo...


I think that covers it all... I think my heatsink just wasn't touching the die hard enough so it was probably thermally shutting down as soon as I started it up.

So now I have no wisdom teeth, and I'm happily using my comp.... (yesss, don't have to go to work!)

Thanks for the help again,


Will.